| Re: Phallic Plate Heads for Oxford |
Turn On, Tune In, Drop O .. |
| elag (elag@cloud8.net) |
2004/01/09 00:48 |
Paul Heslop wrote:
>
> elag wrote:
>
> > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > >
> > > elag wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Our problem here is that the rules the governments put in place to protect the minorities are being over used and abused to such an extent
> > > > > they are actually causing more trouble than they're worth. People see what they think of as bias in favour of other cultures etc and the old
> > > > > green eyed god shows his head. The gutter press are certainly fanning the flames of another forest fire of hatred here.
> > > >
> > > > Same thing here... "reverse discrimination" and "white male rage" are
> > > > issues that won't go away. On the other side you have people looking
> > > > for slavery reparations and extension of affirmative action. Really,
> > > > in view of the history of slavery and "Jim Crow", segregation and the
> > > > "color barrier" I have to come down on the side of affirmative action.
> > >
> > > I would, if it didn't piss so many people off. More and more people are becoming right wing here, it's scary. There also times when minorities are
> > > literally seen to get away with murder (riots etc) when they claim that police or whoever handled things wrongly due to their
> > > religion/colour/sexuality blah blah and the courts agree. People look and see this unfair treatment, knowing if they did the same they would be
> > > languishing in prison. Affirmative action should only be used for the good.
> >
> > Sure, but who determines who is "good"?
>
> I didn't mean who so much as what.
Have to agree w/ that, then.
>
> > I think it's about basic
> > justice. A freed slave society which, except for a short post-bellum
> > period, was forced into vitual serfdom in the south and harshly
> > oppressed in the north as well. Subject to segregation, and wary of
> > lynching a whole population was kept back and left behind. The
> > aftermath of these injustices persist to this day.
>
> They seem much worse in the USA though. It may be just a view coloured by distance and tv etc but when you have problems over there they seem to be
> blown out of all proportion compared to here. If we had one death of a person from a minority due to an attack it becomes a huge issue with repurcsions
> for years.
> Talking of injustices, did the Rodney King thing ever get sorted? Last I heard the cops got away with it.
Sometimes it is blown out of proportion, but our unique history of
slavery, civil war and segregation makes it somewhat inevitable in the
short term. In all black "ghettos", the racial tension is
understandably elevated.
As to Rodney King - "not guilty".
Here's a summary of the verdict and result:
http://members.tripod.com/bblink/riots.html
I won't comment since it probably demands a book length analysis.
>
> >
> >
> > I don't think justice should be tempered by fear of the inevitable
> > reactionaries. It was necessary for the National Guard (under Federal
> > orders) to fend them off so a black girl could go to a (formerly) all
> > white school. People were angry, people were offended, but justice was served.
>
> I just watched a movie about the blacks who did the bus boycott. Amazing bravery.
Agreed. The same and more goes for all the civil rights advocates in
the south, many of whom were beaten or killed for their troubles.
> This kind of illustrates my meaning, we just never seemed to have this
> lingering hatred thing going. Of course it is and was probably here, but these huge situations just never have been.
No, it's a different history and a different mix of black/white/asian
over there. Some of the southern US states are 25 - 35% black... and,
believe it or not, civil war grudges are still percolating.
>
> >
> >
> > I don't think redress has to go to an extreme, but any look at inner
> > cities around here offer ample reason that something be done. I would
> > like it if poor & underpriveledged people of all ethnicities could get
> > similar help. I know that some of the poorest in the US are in fact,
> > white.
>
> Yeah, I saw a message from someone once which basically said the term 'White Trash' is racist, but to blacks.
Sort of... I've used it myself though I shouldn't have. It's a very old
pejorative description of poor, down-and-out whites: "po' white
trash"... which is still hanging about for some reason. Some people
have called it one the last (borderline) acceptable epithets.
It says that these people have to be
> really low indeed to be classed lower than blacks. To me this was a perfect example of the stupidity of the race card. These people should be joining
> together as one, they should be standing side by side for their rights instead of trying to out-do each other.
You know how it goes w/ the ruling class: Divide And Conquer.
So, long as people fight amongst themselves over unimportant issues such
as the relative levels of melanin in their skin, they will never be able
to fight against their true oppressors.
>
> >
> >
> > .
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can see that things might be played out more equitably with a goal of
> > > > eventual real equal opportunity, but I do think that past injustices
> > > > have not quite been wiped out yet. Any statistical analysis of relative
> > > > opportunities in the various ethnic groups will bear this out.
> > >
> > > The sense of injustice here is not as great. I know there was slavery here but there seemed to be a period where the past was forgotten. What
> > > we're seeing now looks like "I am entitled to this, gimme."
> > >
> > > I despair when I see uneven handedness on either 'side' as i know it will lead to more anger and resentment from the opposition.
> >
> > I know that the situation is a bit different in the UK and probably
> > demands different solutions. I don't neccessarily have a lot of
> > answers, but I would like to see people - all people given the
> > opportunity to escape the depredations of poverty... lack of
> > education... violence...
> >
> > We all deserve better.
> >
> >
>
> I agree 100%. I don't know if I told you about the instance a few years back, when my kids were still at school. Bradford is a notoriously asian
> community (It's actually multiethnic, but it has been labelled as being 'full of pakis') One of the rules brought in was that schools must always give
> priority and assistance to the minority... so this headmaster said the rule was an ass, as in his case if he gave priority to the minority he would be
> giving it to the white kids in his school (of which there were hardly any). All he wanted to do was show that this rule was badly thought out, that by
> using the term 'minority' it wasn't clear. Despite the parents of the Asian kids in his school standing by his side during the fight he was ousted from
> his job and branded racist.
True, in this case it is very silly. The whole idea of protecting
statistical "minorities" is increasingly senseless as we approach a
"plurality" in many places... as in Manhattan which is
46% white 15% Black (non hispanic) 9% Asian 27% hispanic
no true majority...
of course this doesn't absolve gov'ts from helping populations which are
clearly lagging behind. They should just add some common sense to the statistics.
>
> >
> > > :O) We say this often, we are a mongrel nation, as Eddie Izzard puts it. This area has been under everything from Roman, viking and French control
> > > with influxes from all over the place. Hence our strange accent.
> >
> > I thought it was we Merkins who had the accent...
>
> I meant geordies.
Brother, it is pretty thick. But really, an accent is simply how the
other guy speaks... Berliners think the Viennese have a funny accent and
the Parisians say they can't understand the Quebecois and New Yawkers
have no patience for a Mississippi drawl. I find them all immensely
interesting if intermittently frustrating.
"Take me t' d' corner' o' toity toid n' toid, mac"
>
> >
> >
> > Of course, there is no such thing as a pure Briton or Indian or Chinese,
> > or whatever... if you follow things far enough back there is always
> > mixing between ethnic populations... and since there is only one "race",
> > the Human Race (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) none of it much matters. We
> > should all celebrate our differences.
> >
> >
>
> Yup...It would be nice to see no boundaries, if only
Looks like we're only going to see more, for awhile... you've heard that
Europeans (and others) carrying Visas are now being photographed and
fingerprinted when entering the US?
--
replace "8" with "9" to reply
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