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From: Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Phallic Plate Heads for Oxford
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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:51:14 GMT
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elag wrote:
> Paul Heslop wrote:
> >
> > elag wrote:
> >
> > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > >
> > > > elag wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Of course, the puns are often painful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that the whole point behind a pun?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, some puns hurt more than others... I remember one spouted by Robin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (of Batman and...) as he jumps off a statue of a lion and kicks a crook
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the head he says: "my foot is LION on your jaw"... noe that's painful!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like word play (if you couldn't tell) and I'm one of those few
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that enjoys a good pun now and again... but puns have to be treated like
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spices... usually a little goes a long way.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Duchamp's puns for examply are often brilliant... and the Surrealists
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were riddled with puns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just into silly humour whatever it is. Serious discussions in other NGs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > are often brought to a grinding halt by someone's inclusion of a pun in a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > reply, setting a chain off.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't bother me so much as the cats who think the be all and end
> > > > > > > > > > > > > all of usenet existance is a cascade of n 0 n sequ1turs and gibberish.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A few silly puns never hurt anyone.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Your cats use usenet?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any cats, but if I did I'd surely let them surf the web.
> > > > > > > > > > > Too many webcats might be a catastrophe though.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Actually I was thinking more about the infamous "m e o w ers".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nah, you were just recalling your beat days and your black turtle neck sweaters :O)
> > > > > > > > > > (clicks fingers and plays bongo to crap poetry in the background)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hey, man... I'm a hep cat, with a reet pleat, a ripe stripe, a stuff
> > > > > > > > > cuff and a drape shape. I em heep to de jive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tom and Jerry! :O)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, it's true... it was Tom & Jerry who first acquainted me w/ the Zoot
> > > > > > > suit. It has a pretty interesting history:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/zoot/eng_sfeature/sf_zoot.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you can even clue in on the infamous Sleepy Lagoon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > :O) With me it was between T&J and a thing called Zoot Money
> > > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/penny/843/
> > > > > > Not that I've heard them or think they wear zoot suits, but the name led me to check out the
> > > > > > word 'zoot'
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That T&J is one of the all time best.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zut alors... that word does show up in a lot of old toons... I think it
> > > > > was used in "Porky in Wackyland". The suits were an amusing trend and
> > > > > it's amazing that it led to such violence... maybe not so amazing
> > > > > considering the racism of the times. Actually, the T & J toon works
> > > > > pretty well today w/ or w/o any real knowledge of the context and more
> > > > > or less escapes the racist overtones even if the feeling is a bit "ethnic".
> > > > >
> > > > > It sure would make a fab Halloween costume... especially with a cat mask
> > > > > added to the mix.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zoot Zoot!
> > > >
> > > > :O) It actually annoys me when they cut out the slightly prejudiced bits out of T&J toons. It's a
> > > > part of it as much as the violence as incredibly playful. The worst one is where the candle is
> > > > fired at Tom and lands on his tail, burning him from head to foot and leaving him looking like a
> > > > little 'picaniny' or whatever. This is often removed, so you're left with the consequences of the
> > > > candle being nil.
> > >
> > > I guess they don't want to further those old racial stereotypes among
> > > the smallfry, which is fine w/ me as long as I can still get at the
> > > undiluted stuff.
> > >
> > > Have you ever seen "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarves" (by Bob Clampett)?
> > > It won't be shown on teevee but it's well worth watching.
> >
> > Nope, but I'll keep an eye out for it. I'm kind of tolerant of stuff which was the way it was back
> > then, though not of current stuff. Back then we could claim stupidity and ignorance, now we just know
> > it's hatred.
> > Do you think the minstrels were racist? Apart from the fact they used white people to play black people
> > the actual act didn't bother me at all
>
> I do think that minstrelsy was inherently racist. Just the idea of
> people in blackface mimicking black performers for an all white audience
> emphasized that black people were not considered fit to be in their
> company. Amazingly, even black performers were often forced to appear
> in blackface.
>
> The humor and ideas expressed in the shows were also often racist. The
> songs themselves were sometimes just corny sentimental stuff that I
> might not consider particularly racist. You can get away w/ playing
> some of the songs today... if you don't feel compelled to break out the greasepaint.
>
> This article covers the basic criticisms:
> http://afroamhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa100800a.htm
Ah, we only got the one thing really. The Black and White Minstrel show... and if we can class Jolson as part
of it too then I recall him. But what about Othelo? I mean yes, the words weren't racist but he was probably
played by white men many more times than by black.
--
Paul. (I don't know what to say, you don't care anyway)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Not what it seems...
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
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