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From: elag <elag@cloud9.net>
Newsgroups: alt.surrealism
Subject: Re: Phallic Plate Heads for Oxford
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 03:26:16 -0500
Organization: Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose
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Paul Heslop wrote:
>
> elag wrote:
>
> > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > >
> > > elag wrote:
> > >
> > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Of course, the puns are often painful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that the whole point behind a pun?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, some puns hurt more than others... I remember one spouted by Robin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (of Batman and...) as he jumps off a statue of a lion and kicks a crook
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the head he says: "my foot is LION on your jaw"... noe that's painful!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really like word play (if you couldn't tell) and I'm one of those few
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that enjoys a good pun now and again... but puns have to be treated like
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > spices... usually a little goes a long way.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Duchamp's puns for examply are often brilliant... and the Surrealists
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > were riddled with puns.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just into silly humour whatever it is. Serious discussions in other NGs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > are often brought to a grinding halt by someone's inclusion of a pun in a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > reply, setting a chain off.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't bother me so much as the cats who think the be all and end
> > > > > > > > > > > > all of usenet existance is a cascade of n 0 n sequ1turs and gibberish.
> > > > > > > > > > > > A few silly puns never hurt anyone.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Your cats use usenet?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't have any cats, but if I did I'd surely let them surf the web.
> > > > > > > > > > Too many webcats might be a catastrophe though.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Actually I was thinking more about the infamous "m e o w ers".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nah, you were just recalling your beat days and your black turtle neck sweaters :O)
> > > > > > > > > (clicks fingers and plays bongo to crap poetry in the background)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey, man... I'm a hep cat, with a reet pleat, a ripe stripe, a stuff
> > > > > > > > cuff and a drape shape. I em heep to de jive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tom and Jerry! :O)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, it's true... it was Tom & Jerry who first acquainted me w/ the Zoot
> > > > > > suit. It has a pretty interesting history:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/zoot/eng_sfeature/sf_zoot.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you can even clue in on the infamous Sleepy Lagoon.
> > > > >
> > > > > :O) With me it was between T&J and a thing called Zoot Money
> > > > > http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/penny/843/
> > > > > Not that I've heard them or think they wear zoot suits, but the name led me to check out the
> > > > > word 'zoot'
> > > > >
> > > > > That T&J is one of the all time best.
> > > >
> > > > Zut alors... that word does show up in a lot of old toons... I think it
> > > > was used in "Porky in Wackyland". The suits were an amusing trend and
> > > > it's amazing that it led to such violence... maybe not so amazing
> > > > considering the racism of the times. Actually, the T & J toon works
> > > > pretty well today w/ or w/o any real knowledge of the context and more
> > > > or less escapes the racist overtones even if the feeling is a bit "ethnic".
> > > >
> > > > It sure would make a fab Halloween costume... especially with a cat mask
> > > > added to the mix.
> > > >
> > > > Zoot Zoot!
> > >
> > > :O) It actually annoys me when they cut out the slightly prejudiced bits out of T&J toons. It's a
> > > part of it as much as the violence as incredibly playful. The worst one is where the candle is
> > > fired at Tom and lands on his tail, burning him from head to foot and leaving him looking like a
> > > little 'picaniny' or whatever. This is often removed, so you're left with the consequences of the
> > > candle being nil.
> >
> > I guess they don't want to further those old racial stereotypes among
> > the smallfry, which is fine w/ me as long as I can still get at the
> > undiluted stuff.
> >
> > Have you ever seen "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarves" (by Bob Clampett)?
> > It won't be shown on teevee but it's well worth watching.
>
> Nope, but I'll keep an eye out for it. I'm kind of tolerant of stuff which was the way it was back
> then, though not of current stuff. Back then we could claim stupidity and ignorance, now we just know
> it's hatred.
> Do you think the minstrels were racist? Apart from the fact they used white people to play black people
> the actual act didn't bother me at all
I do think that minstrelsy was inherently racist. Just the idea of
people in blackface mimicking black performers for an all white audience
emphasized that black people were not considered fit to be in their
company. Amazingly, even black performers were often forced to appear
in blackface.
The humor and ideas expressed in the shows were also often racist. The
songs themselves were sometimes just corny sentimental stuff that I
might not consider particularly racist. You can get away w/ playing
some of the songs today... if you don't feel compelled to break out the greasepaint.
This article covers the basic criticisms:
http://afroamhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa100800a.htm
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