| Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed |
de mortuis nil nisi bonu .. |
| elag (elag@cloud9.net) |
2003/10/01 21:11 |
Path: news.nzbot.com!not-for-mail
From: elag <elag@cloud9.net>
Newsgroups: alt.surrealism
Subject: Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 23:11:01 -0400
Organization: de mortuis nil nisi bonum
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Parry wrote:
>
> elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F7382E7.8F22677D@cloud9.net>...
> elag wrote:
> [snips]
> > Parry wrote:
> > > Sounds like actually saw "Black Sabbath," which I haven't seen but I
> > > always get Barbara Steele and Boris Karloff mixed up too.
> >
> > Yeah, with all the funny retitling done on those flicks I didn't realize
> > the difference. What did you think of "Sabbath".
>
> As I said, haven't seen it.
Woops, I'm getting sloppy again. Okay, what did you think of "American
Beauty"? If you haven't seen it, you could always give us your opinion
of local wildflowers.
>
> > > > > > > In that case, *you* should have a copy of the script.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That might be interesting to read. I don't read scripts very often, but
> > > > > > I did find "Exterminating Angel" an enjoyable read. I think the
> > > > > > repetitions work very well in the printed form.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or "Simon of the Desert" -- invaluable because I've never seen a print
> > > > > with legible subtitles.
> > > >
> > > > I happen to have that script as well, but I never read it. I always
> > > > feel somewhat defeated in advance when the script has been translated
> > > > from another language.
> > >
> > > I don't have that concern as I'm stuck with one language -- a silly
> > > language with words like "onomastics," "spalpeen," "belsnickle" and
> > > "yomp." At least scripts which have been translated are more complete
> > > than subtitles.
> >
> > My problem w/ translated scripts is that I don't catch as much of the
> > nuance w/o the actor's delivery, or w/ languages I know (to one degree
> > or another) the critical differences between the original and the
> > translated interpretation. Also, it's hard to choose between differing
> > versions of translations where they are available, though one might
> > suppose that the newest trans. is best.
>
> Sometimes it's nice though to supply your own nuances when reading a
> script, just as with some novels you might cast the characters and
> imagine the camera angles that frame the action.
Sure, reading scripts has its place. Most of my experience of theatre
for example comes from reading scripts. I suppose in the case of film
scripts I look on them a bit like orchestral scores. I'm much more
interested in hearing the composition than looking at the little black
marks on the page. Occasionally, I'll read one but generally I prefer
to watch the film multiple times instead.
>
> > > > > > > All I know about the future is that it will be expensive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, technoaddiction has turned out to be a withering weapon in the
> > > > > > cause of mass consumption. I like to balance what high tech I do use w/
> > > > > > as much low tech as possible. I grind coffee and juice oranges by hand
> > > > > > even as I depend on my answering machine to be my personal assistant.
> > > > >
> > > > > My inadvertent vow of poverty has at least saved me from the trap of
> > > > > technoaddiction.
> > > >
> > > > Poverty above a certain level isn't so bad. You've got free books and
> > > > movies at the library... free art at museums and galleries... good cheap
> > > > food if you can learn to cook... and plenty of time for nappin'. I
> > > > don't envy the rich much even though I could surely make better use of
> > > > their millions... the chains around their ankles seem too heavy to me
> > > > even if they don't seem to perceive them.
> > >
> > > My difficulty was that when the government was handing out massive
> > > fortunes they asked "what do you intend to do with the money" and I
> > > said "I'd be Nikolai Ceascescu," and I haven't heard back on the
> > > application.
> >
> > I think I might become a sort of daredevil "Serge Silberman" or maybe a
> > small scale "Fassbinder".
>
> Or perhaps a zen Louis B. Mayer or evil Jean Vigo...
Beware! Beware! For Jean Vigo stalks the night!
>
> > > > I often think of this quote from "Tropic of Cancer":
> > > >
> > > > "I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I am the happiest man alive. A
> > > > year ago, six months ago, I thought that I was an artist. I no longer
> > > > think about it, _I am_. Everything that was literature has fallen from
> > > > me. There are no more books to be written, thank God. "This then? This
> > > > is not a book. This is libel, slander, and defamation of character. This
> > > > is not a book, in the ordinary sense of the word. No, this is a
> > > > prolonged insult, a gob of spit in the face of Art, a kick in the pants
> > > > sing for you, a little off-key perhaps, but I will sing. I will sing
> > > > while you croak, I will dance over your dirty corpse."
> > >
> > > Nice bit. I lacked the patience, though, to wade through Miller's
> > > ramblings to extract the good bits.
> >
> > I think the 1st two books are pretty readable, though I can see your
> > point when it comes to Sexus, Plexus and Nexus. I've spent many night
> > wandering aimlessly through the streets of Manhattan seeing all through
> > a "Tropic of Cancer" filter. It's like the opposite of a neutral
> > density filter.
>
> I know the sensation you mean, though I've never gotten it from books,
> probably because I don't go walking after reading. I've often had it
> after leaving a movie, though. The effect is one of the best things
> about movies.
I've never heard of a name for this type of experience. maybe we could
call it "Literary Afterglow" or "Cinematic Afterglow".
>
> > > Why are you evading the question of pumpkin?
> >
> > Ah, pumpkins... they are wonderful aren't they?.. they can be a sweet
> > pie or a savory soup and even the toasted seeds make a wonderful treat
> > to say nothing of their marvelous transformation into Jack O' Lanterns.
> > Think of it, a vegetable into which you might merrily climb... some of
> > them grow to weigh 100's of pounds.
>
> Know any recipes for pumpkin drinks, Chef Elag?
I've never really thought of it but I found a few:
http://www.angelfire.com/on/cucurbitaceae/dk.html
>
> > The noble pun'kin... I'm glad that it's nearly the season when I can
> > once again gaze upon their orange shiny faces.
>
> Hallowe'en's a great time of year, when my own shiny orange face isn't
> so out of place.
Don't need any make-up, eh? My best costumes were "Death" when I was 8,
"The Flash" when I was 10, "Psychedelic Trip" when I was 18, and
"Ancient Roman in Black Mourning Toga".
>
> > > > > I thought it was interesting that the shortcuts you took in the
> > > > > animation worked as a sort of axle for the motion -- the contrast
> > > > > between the stable parts and the moving parts of the image worked to
> > > > > your advantage.
> > > >
> > > > This is an accepted animation technique, though I carried it out w/
> > > > exceptional crudity. Figures are usually broken up into layers so that
> > > > parts not moving in one frame don't have to be redrawn. Hopefully my
> > > > end result will be far more fluid.
> > >
> > > I didn't see it in terms of crudity, though. When Hanna-Barbara looped
> > > a moving background it was obvious even to a kid that it was because
> > > they were working on the cheap, but now one can use that technique as
> > > a sort of quote. So the technique was funny in the context of your gif
> > > loop. Would the gif have been as funny if the background was more
> > > realistic? Is over-animation a danger, where computers can insert the
> > > twisted reflections of passing scenery on the spinning hubcap of a
> > > car? Do audiences come to regard such pointless detail as a mark of
> > > good animation?
> >
> > I'm not overly fond of such (over)animation, though a few judicious
> > computer effects can liven up even cel animation. I'm reacting against
> > such things in striving for a certain simplicity and cartoonishness and
> > even crudeness in my concept. My own attitude is sort of anti-D1sney
> > and against the trend towards naturalism. Nevertheless, my end result
> > will be less crude than my tests, but I'm still not sure exactly what
> > they will look like.
>
> I suppose such choices are what create meaning in a work, and suspect
> technology-driven animators will over-animate things just because they
> can.
That is definitely a trend, but I would always expect the majority to be
hack work anyway. If you think about the early days of animation, it
was always about technical innovation and tricks and flash, like the
Fleischers 3-D turntable effect and the multiplane camera. The ease of
using computers will encourage a lot of empty spectacle but it should
also allow the inventive independent producers to create interesting
pieces cheaply and so more freely.
In contrast to tech tricks, I've been reading about a technique used in
cel animation by the late Shamus Culhane (he worked at all the major
studios from the '20s to the '60s and wrote "Talking Animals and Other
People" and "Animation: From Script to Screen"). He had a high speed
animating technique which involved drawing a scene (on many sheets of
animation paper) very quickly almost w/o thinking about it... sometimes
drawing only an eye or an arm... just enough to suggest the action while
allowing for later clean up work to pull the drawings into final form.
It sounds like a kind of "Automatic" Animation.
I doubt I'll get to the point where I'll try try it as it's the kind of
thing that can only come out of spending years mastering the traditional
techniques which I'll likely never use. It is also reputedly very hard
on the wrists and I have enough problems w/ incipient Repetitive Stress
Injury as it is. It remains a very intriguing idea to me, though.
>
> > > > > Care to kick around some of your plot notions?
> > > >
> > > > I've roughed out a preliminary storyboard which include the basic plot points:
> > >
> > > Of course I've elaborated on it. This is "alt.surrealism" after all...
> > >
> > > -Blank walks Jazzily down the street
> > > -He sees a film marquee for "Old Banjo Nose" and holds his nose in
> > > disdain
> > > -"Old Banjo Nose" animates and sticks out his tongue
> > > -a black limousine pull ups
> > > -a half-eaten sandwich is thrown from the window and the limo drives
> > > off
> > > -Blank reaches for the sandwich but a rat scurries up to claim it
> > > -both characters tug at the sandwich until the rat pulls a knife and
> > > Blank retreats
> > > -Blank watches a dress mannikin being undressed and digs it
> > > -the window dresser plants a kiss on the mannequin
> > > -Blank gets moon-eyed
> > > -the manequin sticks out his tongue at Blank and the window dresser
> > > slams the curtain closed on the window
> > > -a white limousine pulls up and stops
> > > -in very quick action a ritzy old fellow and two bubbly young woman
> > > exit the limo, go into the dress shop, re-emerge with arms laden with
> > > boxes, and drive off
> > > -as the limo drives off, it splashes a puddle of water at Blank, but
> > > the wall of water courteously stand suspended long enough for Blank to
> > > step out of the way
> > > -Blank smells something good
> > > -Sees tasty 10 cent cakes in bakery window
> > > -he stares into the window at the cakes which anthropomorphise and
> > > start caressing themselves seductively
> > > -with the image fromed from the window's point of view, Blank hears a
> > > smacking sound and turns his head to see White is also standing there
> > > ogling the cakes
> > > -Blank checks pockets which are empty but for a screw and a rubber
> > > ball
> > > -the rat drives by in the back of a small open car driven by a mouse,
> > > and flicks cigar ash at the heroes
> > > -the ash rolls to a stop around a dime
> > > back at the dime, etc.
> > > -they dive for it and knock heads
> > > -tweeting birds fly around their heads
> > > -as their eyes slow spinning, the birds crash into their heads
> > > -mariachi bands and a Chinese street fetival with elaborate kites
> > > circle their heads, followed by the street cleaner (as in Bullwinkle),
> > > then two kids sharing a lollipop
> > > -Blank and White regain consciousness and growl at each other, but
> > > then reflect on their vision of the children
> > > -Blank suggests sharing
> > > -White agrees and proposes that Blank use the dime to buy a cake and
> > > White will eat it
> > > -Blank refines the proposal so that they both use the dime to buy a
> > > cake and split it
> > > -White agrees so long as it's a chocolate cake
> > > -Blank grimaces -- perhaps flashing back to the childhood moment when
> > > he realised the chocolate bar he was chomping was writhing with
> > > maggots -- and demands vanilla
> > > -White says he normally wouldn't bargain with a stranger but he likes
> > > Blank's face so howzabout they flip for it
> > > -they flip they coin which spins in the air an abnormally long time
> > > -as the coin spins mid-air they see the baker put another cake in the
> > > window "new cake -- half chocolate / half vanilla"
> > > -the coin plummets into the sewer
> > > -they can't get the sewer grate open so they tie it to a dog's tail
> > > and get it to chase a cat
> > > -they climb down into the sewer
> > > -they light a match but a mouse keeps blowing it out
> > > -mouse steals the dime and floats away in an empty tomato can
> > > -White makes a boat out of a disgarded newspaper and they take off in
> > > pursuit...
> >
> > I'm glad you had fun anyway....
>
> Gee, I hope you didn't take my remix as an affront.
Nah, I rarely get annoyed by remixes in this forum. (It reminds me
about what I said about nuance and text) Most posts can be considered
fair game.
> Perhaps I should have been more liberal in my alterations: Blank and White descend
> through the 3 levels of the NY sewer system where they battle the
> bastard children of Cinder-Cat to death over orts of food.
The cinder-cat could be a funny character.
> Despondent,they get drunk on moonbeam distillate
Blank and White WILL get drunk when they run into a bunch of
subterrranean moonshiners brewing "Jen-u-wine Juniper Juice". I guess I
mentioned it before.
> and wind up in a tattoo parlor
> where they get so many tattoos the white character becomes black and
> the black white. When they finally find the dime it assumes the shape
> of a fish hook and skewers their cheeks.
No-o-o... I could never allow such a thing to befall my pals Blank &
White. They do end up rather knocked about by the end. I think they'll
end up expells from a drain pipe.
>
> > > > > > They do have a disc of Raymond Scott's music (Warner Bros. cartoon
> > > > > > music), and other stuff that may still be in stores.
> > > > >
> > > > > Scott's stuff, you probably know, pre-existed the cartoons. On the
> > > > > down side, the music may be too over-exposed at this point to want to
> > > > > use; on the up side, Scott managed to get a fine audio quality for his
> > > > > time, so it might be good to hear the originals for a change in a
> > > > > cartoon.
> > > >
> > > > I won't use it I just enjoy listening to it. I liked the versions from
> > > > "The Carl Stalling Project" and if I get my hands on the originals I'm
> > > > sure I'll dig that too. I must admit that I have a preference for the
> > > > cuts that still have the cartoon FX embedded. It would be nice to be
> > > > able to turn that on and off, though.
> > >
> > > There was a well-done collection called "The Music of Raymond Scott:
> > > Reckless Nights and Turkish Twilights" which I bet you could find
> > > easily enough in a good used cd store.
> >
> > Maybe... but that sort of thing is notoriously difficult to dig up...
>
> That particular cd was a Columbia release and was very easy to find at
> the time. I expect there's many copies floating around the used cd
> stores.
All I can ever find in used CD stores is everything I don't want... but
I did luck out w/ that "Little rascals" album... It wasn't even used.
>
> > > > > A few years ago, a jazz combo (Don Byron, "Bug Music")
> > > > > recreated some of Scott's recordings, doing a decent job though
> > > > > naturally some of the personality of the originals is missing.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > For other old-time recordings,
> > > > > > > maybe too old actually, you might check the on-line Edison cylinder
> > > > > > > archive (there's a Portland, Oregon connection, incidentally):
> > > > > > > http://www.tinfoil.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, too early... but very very interesting. "The Dixie Rube" was the
> > > > > > kind of thing that might make for a good old style tune though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of the recordings have a creepy quality which is nice, but the
> > > > > music tends to be dead on its feet. I believe it wasn't until the 20's
> > > > > that they started recording music that had life in it.
> > > >
> > > > I do have a preference for post 1919 Jazz, but even some of the earlier
> > > > Dixieland type songs can be kind of nice, though the recordings are a
> > > > bit muddy. I think I'm going to dip into a bit of King Oliver.
> > >
> > > The recordings are terrible, though at the time people likely thought
> > > they sounded great. I would like to hear more of the old recordings,
> > > though, as I'm a music junkie. If memory serves, it was in the 20's
> > > that people started recording musics which I guess were previously
> > > considered culturally insignificant -- by hillbillies, blacks, etc.
> > > It's all probably available in some form or other. For instance, a few
> > > years ago there was a cd series of ethnographic musics ("world music")
> > > recorded in the 20's.
> >
> > Yes, there were also a lot of this type of thing released during the
> > '50s hi-fi era, but I'm not sure if any of it made its way onto CD.
> > Maybe it would be best to break down and buy a nice gramophone.
>
> Sure, then you could be trendy and buy new vinyl releases of things
> like the Rolling Stones' "Between the Buttons" for only a few dollars
> more than what the cd costs. Actually, New York would be a great place
> to own a record player. There's a vast, strange universe waiting in
> those used vinyl stores.
Yes, and because of the DJ culture you can find whole stores full of
nothing but beats, ambient noise and pop cultural samples... but then
you'll need 2 turntables.
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