| Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed |
Plus ca change plus c'es .. |
| elag (elag@cloud9.net) |
2003/09/24 22:30 |
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From: elag <elag@cloud9.net>
Newsgroups: alt.surrealism
Subject: Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:30:51 -0400
Organization: Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose
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Parry wrote:
>
> elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F63E134.7A31B0B4@cloud9.net>...
> > Parry wrote:
> > >
> > > elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F5EAB73.273D23B9@cloud9.net>...
> > > > Parry wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F5578AD.4DEC92BC@cloud9.net>...
> > > > > [snip for length]
> > > > > > Hmm... I feel a Godard festival coming on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Must be nice. My movie options are more like: maybe I'll tape After
> > > > > the Thin Man tonight. (It was pretty good.)
> > > >
> > > > Now you have "Shadow of the Thin Man", "The Thin Man Goes Home" and
> > > > "Song of the Thin Man" to look forward to.
> > >
> > > I've probably seen them all. Myrna Loy was a doll.
> >
> > Now she's just the "Extremely Thin Woman".
> >
> > > > I may check out some Mario
> > > > Bava films this week. I recall he is one of those guys you like.
> > >
> > > I've seen a few and have mixed feelings about them. Bava more or less
> > > authored the look of the Italian horror film boom so his films are
> > > interesting to see from that perspective. In "Blood and Black Lace"
> > > one gets to see the black-gloved serial killer that Argento borrowed
> > > time and again. That and "Black Sunday" are the best Bavas I've seen.
> > > Others like "Planet of the Vampires" look great but are boring
> > > overall, while there are 70's films which I thought were dispensable.
> > > Cythera was an enthusiast for the Freda-Bava film "Caltiki," but I
> > > haven't seen it. I'm most curious to see "Danger: Diabolik" and
> > > "Twitch of the Death Nerve" (the latter mainly for the title, which
> > > may not even be Bava's). "Plant of the Vampires" and "Diabolik" have
> > > the kind of 60's look referenced in the recent movie "CQ" (worth a
> > > see). The Freda stuff I've seen was more perverse and enjoyable,
> > > though.
> >
> > I decided to check out "Black Sunday". If I like that I can see the
> > rest on tape, though I hear the dubs are poor for some reason.
>
> It's pretty much potluck what you get with 60's horror videos.
> Consider the history of "Black Sunday." The American theatrical
> release replaced the Italian score with a Les Baxter soundtrack,
> rewrote the dialogue to flatten it, and cut out scenes (though they
> left in the more explicit violence). The release in Britain, once the
> ban was lifted, was closer to Bava's film, except the more explicit
> violence had been excised. Then with videos, it's often the case that
> a company will put out some public domain print of a film, maybe from
> a terrible source, maybe a print in terrible condition, etc.
Yes that is pretty common, especially when they deal with the more
declasse genres like horror.
I saw the Italian version (director's cut). It was very enjoyable,
though I found it more funny than scary. The garish unmotivated
lighting, especially in the vampire story, was particularly amusing to
me. I actually did find some of the "Drop of Water" to be fascinatingly
nighmarish. I also thought the parting shot of Karloff where the camera
pulls back to reveal that he's on a mechanical horse was appropriately
reflexive, since I think this film belongs in the camp horror camp.
>
> > > > > > I just recently saw "Pierrot
> > > > > > Le Fou". Somewhere I read that this is the film where "Godard tries to
> > > > > > do everything and almost succeeds" and I'd agree w/ that. It is a very
> > > > > > interesting film, but I guess it's another one that would frustrate the
> > > > > > "average movie goer". What the hell is it about, anyway?!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have the script lying around somewhere. I'll have to fish it out.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I do know what it's about... it's just that it's about so many
> > > > things. The literary refs are so many that it demands to be seen a
> > > > couple of times... it's the kind of film that requires footnotes, but I
> > > > groove on that sort of thing.
> > >
> > > In that case, *you* should have a copy of the script.
> >
> > That might be interesting to read. I don't read scripts very often, but
> > I did find "Exterminating Angel" an enjoyable read. I think the
> > repetitions work very well in the printed form.
>
> Or "Simon of the Desert" -- invaluable because I've never seen a print
> with legible subtitles.
I happen to have that script as well, but I never read it. I always
feel somewhat defeated in advance when the script has been translated
from another language.
>
> > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > > > But I'm not bitter...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's the same up here. In fact, the chains only run Hollywood product.
> > > > > > > In Toronto, the "reperatory" theatres which used to run foreign films
> > > > > > > now play second run action features. I think even the theatre that
> > > > > > > used to run films from the 40's and earlier is gone. Elsewhere,
> > > > > > > university film societies seem to be largely a thing of the past. And
> > > > > > > most of the independent and foreign films we do get to see don't veer
> > > > > > > far from the beaten track. Hollywood: it's your only choice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a sad cat. I guess it's lucky I ended up in one of the few places
> > > > > > where I can see a Gloria Swanson film, "M", a silent Felix the cat
> > > > > > cartoon and a Carl Dreyer retrospective in the same week.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One day I hope the Inet will serve the needs of fans of old, obscure,
> > > > > > experimental and underground films as well as the mainstream.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given our luck trying to move 500 kb of gif loops over usenet, I'm not
> > > > > holding my breath.
> > > >
> > > > If we weren't hobbled by slow dial-ups and iffy phone lines it wouldn't
> > > > have been such a big deal. Also, it's the very proliferation of giant
> > > > multipart media files in the groups that make it so hard to find one w/
> > > > retention long enough to be practical... otherwise we'd use alt.binaries.misc.
> > > >
> > > > Just the fact that Buster Keaton and Bunuel clips reside on my hard
> > > > drive fill me w/ hope for the future.
> > >
> > > All I know about the future is that it will be expensive.
> >
> > Yes, technoaddiction has turned out to be a withering weapon in the
> > cause of mass consumption. I like to balance what high tech I do use w/
> > as much low tech as possible. I grind coffee and juice oranges by hand
> > even as I depend on my answering machine to be my personal assistant.
>
> My inadvertent vow of poverty has at least saved me from the trap of
> technoaddiction.
Poverty above a certain level isn't so bad. You've got free books and
movies at the library... free art at museums and galleries... good cheap
food if you can learn to cook... and plenty of time for nappin'. I
don't envy the rich much even though I could surely make better use of
their millions... the chains around their ankles seem too heavy to me
even if they don't seem to perceive them.
I often think of this quote from "Tropic of Cancer":
"I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I am the happiest man alive. A
year ago, six months ago, I thought that I was an artist. I no longer
think about it, _I am_. Everything that was literature has fallen from
me. There are no more books to be written, thank God. "This then? This
is not a book. This is libel, slander, and defamation of character. This
is not a book, in the ordinary sense of the word. No, this is a
prolonged insult, a gob of spit in the face of Art, a kick in the pants
sing for you, a little off-key perhaps, but I will sing. I will sing
while you croak, I will dance over your dirty corpse."
>
> > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > It's been said that some of the best animation in "Snow White" used the
> > > > > > live actors merely as references and that the rotoscoped sections were a
> > > > > > bit stiff. Philosophically I'd be inclined to say that being enslaved
> > > > > > by the rotoscope process is an unacceptable limitation, though it can be
> > > > > > useful. I think all animators have recourse to models of some kind even
> > > > > > if the goal is high style non naturalistic animation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, at this time I'm more interested is denying physics and
> > > > > > Muybridge, but I'm open to using whatever technique which might improve
> > > > > > the cartoon. I actually think that eventually, if I gain enough skill,
> > > > > > I might try to realize some of my shelved live action ideas in the realm
> > > > > > of animation. That would be far in the future...
> > > > >
> > > > > Just curious: have you seen any of Walerian Borowczyk's animations? I
> > > > > haven't, but the stills from them are intriguing and I enjoyed his
> > > > > (live action) features.
> > > >
> > > > No, but they do look interesting... I wonder where I might find them...
> > >
> > > I recall a place called Luminoius Video Wurks in Medford, NY peddling
> > > a compilation tape (surely dubbed from a Eurpoean release), so perhaps
> > > some enterprising video rental in your area may have it.
>
> Just noticed I misspelled "Luminous." That's how they spelled "wurks,"
> though.
>
> > I expect so... onto the list it goes.
> >
> > > > His 2-D & 3-D art is also very nice.
> > >
> > > Where have you seen his 3-D art?
> >
> > I believe there are at least a couple of images in this gallery:
> >
> > http://www.awn.com/gallery/boro/gal01.html
>
> Nice site. I notice some images share titles with his animations, so
> wonder if they aren't cels.
I think most of them are watercolor, gouache, ink, oils on paper and the
like. I don't recall any labelled as cels, but it's possible. I
thought that some may have been designs used in his animations or even
backgrounds, but w/o seeing his films I can't say.
The several wood assemblages are my faves.
>
> > ....
> >
> > > >
> > > > Pie eyes require pie.
> > >
> > > Never touch the stuff (booze, that is; pies are okay).
> >
> > I was thinking more in the vein of cartoon characters' eyes... with a
> > slice taken out to make them more expressive...
> >
> > http://members.tripod.com/raenae54/index-2.html
> >
> > ...as to pies, I prefer cherry... but I always eat all the sour pie
> > cherries before there's time to bake any pies.
>
> Yes, cherry is the best, though there's a lot to be said for pumpkin.
> Aren't you glad Google is capturing this conversation for posterity?
It doesn't bother me... there's nothing wrong w/ a bit of digression...
and even Surrealists have to eat. Sure too much digression might lead
to an overdose of entropy but it's good to keep in mind the old school
Surrealists fondness for digressions and trivia... like Aragon's loving
description of the drinks menu in his favorite cafe as expounded in
"Paris Peasant" or Bunuel's paens to the perfect martini in "Discrete
Charm of the Bourgeoisie" and "My Last Sigh".
When Breton and chums hung around at "Les Deux Magots" they surely
didn't spend all their time talking about heady matters of Theory &
Revolution. There must have been a measure of "small talk" as well.
>
> > > The gifs were quite nice and, despite not being long enough to have
> > > actual gags, funny.
> >
> > Good, I'd hoped to create characters that just "look funny" no matter
> > what they actually do.
> >
> > > The rickety motion has a nice comic effect of
> > > making the character seem happy and oblivious like a wobbly toddler.
> >
> > I do want to ultimately improve the animation, and add a bit more
> > "bounce", but I want to preserve a bit of the crude quality of the early
> > toons.
>
> I thought it was interesting that the shortcuts you took in the
> animation worked as a sort of axle for the motion -- the contrast
> between the stable parts and the moving parts of the image worked to
> your advantage.
This is an accepted animation technique, though I carried it out w/
exceptional crudity. Figures are usually broken up into layers so that
parts not moving in one frame don't have to be redrawn. Hopefully my
end result will be far more fluid.
>
> > > He's so buoyant I expect something grand guignol to beset him.
> >
> > He is supposed to have a kind of Harold Lloyd happy go lucky quality,
> > but without all the ambition. Of course he will stumble into trouble at
> > every turn.
> >
> > > Is this character one you're planning to use? He's reminiscent of a golliwog,
> > > so that may be a source of friction.
> >
> > Yes, he is known as Mr. Blank. He is all black mainly becouse black
> > characters are easier to animate, or at least it's derived from that
> > tendency in the early toons. I hope to avoid any "racial" associations
> > and make it clear that he is merely an extremely simplified
> > representation of a man who is ink black rather than any realistic
> > color. There's probably no way to totally avoid the "racial"
> > associations in these fractious times, but I will try to avoid any
> > explicit or implicit references to "race".
> >
> > I've balanced him with Mr. White who is a negative image of Blank with a
> > bowler hat and wide tie.
>
> But, but...
>
> > I'm not sure if this makes the situation worse
> > but hopefully the mirrored simplified facial features will make clear
> > the characters' reduction to symbols.
>
> I suppose you could always change White's name to Mr. Wipe or
> something to that effect, but it may never be an issue. Depends on the
> level of paranoia in whoever sees it.
I chose "blank" and "white" because they're both a sort of shorthand for
a "tabula rasa" or "blank page". I can see the problem w/ a white
character named "White" but I choose to ignore it. Since these two are
simplified even more than the other people in the toon, I think the idea
of "blank" figures will carry, at least to some degree. Since they have
no lips or hair and sport rubber clown noses and don't do any "racial"
schtick I hope that only the most paranoid will take pause.
> Care to kick around some of your plot notions?
I've roughed out a preliminary storyboard which include the basic plot points:
-Blank walks Jazzily down the street
-He sees a film marquee for "Old Banjo Nose" and holds his nose in disdain
-"Old Banjo Nose" animates and sticks out his tongue
-Blank watches a dress mannikin being undressed and digs it
-window dresser slams the curtain closed on the window
-Blank smells something good
-Sees tasty 10 cent cakes in bakery window
-checks pockets which are empty but for a screw and a rubber ball
-White walks by
-both see a dime on the sidewalk
-they dive for it and knock heads
-martini glasses rotate around their heads in lieu of stars or birds
-they toast each other with the glasses before they disappear
-they agree to split the proceeds
-but one wants a cocolate cake and one wants vanilla
-they flip a coin but it rolls into the sewer
-they cant get the sewer grate open so they tie it to a dog's tail and
get it to chase a cat
-they climb down into the sewer
-they light a match but a mouse keeps blowing it out
-mouse steals the dime and floats away in an empty tomato can
-White makes a boat out of a disgarded newspaper and they take off in pursuit...
That ought to give you a bit of the flavor...
>
> > > The Little Rascals-type music was easy to imagine without your having
> > > to prompt me. Robert Crumb's Cheap Suit Serenaders once covered that
> > > theme and that version sprang to mind.
> >
> > I'll have to pick up one of their albums one of these days, if I can
> > find them. You'd like the "Beau Hunks" who were associated w/ Crumb.
> > He did some art for their recordings of the Rascals composer Leroy Shield:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005YQ4/qid=1063509627/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/103-6909268-9789430?v=glance&s=music
> >
> > if you can listen to the samples (scroll down), "Beautiful Lady" was the
> > track I had in mind... unfortunately the disk is tough to find
>
> It was fun, but I thought their sound lacked edge. The best thing
> about the Serenaders was their sloppiness.
I love it. These guys work more in the vein of historical recreation.
On this particular CD they've recreated brilliantly music which no
longer existed as complete songs, only as background snippets. I, for
one greatly appreciate it. I've always had an interest in incidental
and background music and other ignored areas of musical history. I look
at such things as the sountracks to my subconscious.
> You could always just copy the music from a video soundtrack, but I thought you intended to play
> the music yourself (to save the expense, if nothing else).
I will play it myself, but I'm not beyond cannibalizing old
orchestrations. I've always been more of a sound collage-ist than a
musician. I do find Leroy Sheild's music to be inspirational.
Or you
> could put a request to one of the mp3 groups, some of which are rather
> specialised. If you do, maybe try to find Temperance 7 while you're at
> it. They were a British group in the early 60's, along with The
> Alberts and the like, that humorously revived atavistic jazz styles.
>
> > They do have a disc of Raymond Scott's music (Warner Bros. cartoon
> > music), and other stuff that may still be in stores.
>
> Scott's stuff, you probably know, pre-existed the cartoons. On the
> down side, the music may be too over-exposed at this point to want to
> use; on the up side, Scott managed to get a fine audio quality for his
> time, so it might be good to hear the originals for a change in a
> cartoon.
I won't use it I just enjoy listening to it. I liked the versions from
"The Carl Stalling Project" and if I get my hands on the originals I'm
sure I'll dig that too. I must admit that I have a preference for the
cuts that still have the cartoon FX embedded. It would be nice to be
able to turn that on and off, though.
> A few years ago, a jazz combo (Don Byron, "Bug Music")
> recreated some of Scott's recordings, doing a decent job though
> naturally some of the personality of the originals is missing.
>
> > > For other old-time recordings,
> > > maybe too old actually, you might check the on-line Edison cylinder
> > > archive (there's a Portland, Oregon connection, incidentally):
> > > http://www.tinfoil.com/
> >
> > Yes, too early... but very very interesting. "The Dixie Rube" was the
> > kind of thing that might make for a good old style tune though.
>
> Some of the recordings have a creepy quality which is nice, but the
> music tends to be dead on its feet. I believe it wasn't until the 20's
> that they started recording music that had life in it.
I do have a preference for post 1919 Jazz, but even some of the earlier
Dixieland type songs can be kind of nice, though the recordings are a
bit muddy. I think I'm going to dip into a bit of King Oliver.
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