| Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed |
http://groups.google.com .. |
| Parry (parry@perfectmail.com) |
2003/09/20 10:28 |
elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F63E134.7A31B0B4@cloud9.net>...
> Parry wrote:
> >
> > elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F5EAB73.273D23B9@cloud9.net>...
> > > Parry wrote:
> > > >
> > > > elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F5578AD.4DEC92BC@cloud9.net>...
> > > > [snip for length]
> > > > > Hmm... I feel a Godard festival coming on.
> > > >
> > > > Must be nice. My movie options are more like: maybe I'll tape After
> > > > the Thin Man tonight. (It was pretty good.)
> > >
> > > Now you have "Shadow of the Thin Man", "The Thin Man Goes Home" and
> > > "Song of the Thin Man" to look forward to.
> >
> > I've probably seen them all. Myrna Loy was a doll.
>
> Now she's just the "Extremely Thin Woman".
>
> > > I may check out some Mario
> > > Bava films this week. I recall he is one of those guys you like.
> >
> > I've seen a few and have mixed feelings about them. Bava more or less
> > authored the look of the Italian horror film boom so his films are
> > interesting to see from that perspective. In "Blood and Black Lace"
> > one gets to see the black-gloved serial killer that Argento borrowed
> > time and again. That and "Black Sunday" are the best Bavas I've seen.
> > Others like "Planet of the Vampires" look great but are boring
> > overall, while there are 70's films which I thought were dispensable.
> > Cythera was an enthusiast for the Freda-Bava film "Caltiki," but I
> > haven't seen it. I'm most curious to see "Danger: Diabolik" and
> > "Twitch of the Death Nerve" (the latter mainly for the title, which
> > may not even be Bava's). "Plant of the Vampires" and "Diabolik" have
> > the kind of 60's look referenced in the recent movie "CQ" (worth a
> > see). The Freda stuff I've seen was more perverse and enjoyable,
> > though.
>
> I decided to check out "Black Sunday". If I like that I can see the
> rest on tape, though I hear the dubs are poor for some reason.
It's pretty much potluck what you get with 60's horror videos.
Consider the history of "Black Sunday." The American theatrical
release replaced the Italian score with a Les Baxter soundtrack,
rewrote the dialogue to flatten it, and cut out scenes (though they
left in the more explicit violence). The release in Britain, once the
ban was lifted, was closer to Bava's film, except the more explicit
violence had been excised. Then with videos, it's often the case that
a company will put out some public domain print of a film, maybe from
a terrible source, maybe a print in terrible condition, etc.
> > > > > I just recently saw "Pierrot
> > > > > Le Fou". Somewhere I read that this is the film where "Godard tries to
> > > > > do everything and almost succeeds" and I'd agree w/ that. It is a very
> > > > > interesting film, but I guess it's another one that would frustrate the
> > > > > "average movie goer". What the hell is it about, anyway?!
> > > >
> > > > I have the script lying around somewhere. I'll have to fish it out.
> > >
> > > Well, I do know what it's about... it's just that it's about so many
> > > things. The literary refs are so many that it demands to be seen a
> > > couple of times... it's the kind of film that requires footnotes, but I
> > > groove on that sort of thing.
> >
> > In that case, *you* should have a copy of the script.
>
> That might be interesting to read. I don't read scripts very often, but
> I did find "Exterminating Angel" an enjoyable read. I think the
> repetitions work very well in the printed form.
Or "Simon of the Desert" -- invaluable because I've never seen a print
with legible subtitles.
> > > > [snip]
> > > > > > > But I'm not bitter...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's the same up here. In fact, the chains only run Hollywood product.
> > > > > > In Toronto, the "reperatory" theatres which used to run foreign films
> > > > > > now play second run action features. I think even the theatre that
> > > > > > used to run films from the 40's and earlier is gone. Elsewhere,
> > > > > > university film societies seem to be largely a thing of the past. And
> > > > > > most of the independent and foreign films we do get to see don't veer
> > > > > > far from the beaten track. Hollywood: it's your only choice.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a sad cat. I guess it's lucky I ended up in one of the few places
> > > > > where I can see a Gloria Swanson film, "M", a silent Felix the cat
> > > > > cartoon and a Carl Dreyer retrospective in the same week.
> > > > >
> > > > > One day I hope the Inet will serve the needs of fans of old, obscure,
> > > > > experimental and underground films as well as the mainstream.
> > > >
> > > > Given our luck trying to move 500 kb of gif loops over usenet, I'm not
> > > > holding my breath.
> > >
> > > If we weren't hobbled by slow dial-ups and iffy phone lines it wouldn't
> > > have been such a big deal. Also, it's the very proliferation of giant
> > > multipart media files in the groups that make it so hard to find one w/
> > > retention long enough to be practical... otherwise we'd use alt.binaries.misc.
> > >
> > > Just the fact that Buster Keaton and Bunuel clips reside on my hard
> > > drive fill me w/ hope for the future.
> >
> > All I know about the future is that it will be expensive.
>
> Yes, technoaddiction has turned out to be a withering weapon in the
> cause of mass consumption. I like to balance what high tech I do use w/
> as much low tech as possible. I grind coffee and juice oranges by hand
> even as I depend on my answering machine to be my personal assistant.
My inadvertent vow of poverty has at least saved me from the trap of
technoaddiction.
> > > > [snip]
> > > > > It's been said that some of the best animation in "Snow White" used the
> > > > > live actors merely as references and that the rotoscoped sections were a
> > > > > bit stiff. Philosophically I'd be inclined to say that being enslaved
> > > > > by the rotoscope process is an unacceptable limitation, though it can be
> > > > > useful. I think all animators have recourse to models of some kind even
> > > > > if the goal is high style non naturalistic animation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, at this time I'm more interested is denying physics and
> > > > > Muybridge, but I'm open to using whatever technique which might improve
> > > > > the cartoon. I actually think that eventually, if I gain enough skill,
> > > > > I might try to realize some of my shelved live action ideas in the realm
> > > > > of animation. That would be far in the future...
> > > >
> > > > Just curious: have you seen any of Walerian Borowczyk's animations? I
> > > > haven't, but the stills from them are intriguing and I enjoyed his
> > > > (live action) features.
> > >
> > > No, but they do look interesting... I wonder where I might find them...
> >
> > I recall a place called Luminoius Video Wurks in Medford, NY peddling
> > a compilation tape (surely dubbed from a Eurpoean release), so perhaps
> > some enterprising video rental in your area may have it.
Just noticed I misspelled "Luminous." That's how they spelled "wurks,"
though.
> I expect so... onto the list it goes.
>
> > > His 2-D & 3-D art is also very nice.
> >
> > Where have you seen his 3-D art?
>
> I believe there are at least a couple of images in this gallery:
>
> http://www.awn.com/gallery/boro/gal01.html
Nice site. I notice some images share titles with his animations, so
wonder if they aren't cels.
> ....
>
> > >
> > > Pie eyes require pie.
> >
> > Never touch the stuff (booze, that is; pies are okay).
>
> I was thinking more in the vein of cartoon characters' eyes... with a
> slice taken out to make them more expressive...
>
> http://members.tripod.com/raenae54/index-2.html
>
> ...as to pies, I prefer cherry... but I always eat all the sour pie
> cherries before there's time to bake any pies.
Yes, cherry is the best, though there's a lot to be said for pumpkin.
Aren't you glad Google is capturing this conversation for posterity?
> > The gifs were quite nice and, despite not being long enough to have
> > actual gags, funny.
>
> Good, I'd hoped to create characters that just "look funny" no matter
> what they actually do.
>
> > The rickety motion has a nice comic effect of
> > making the character seem happy and oblivious like a wobbly toddler.
>
> I do want to ultimately improve the animation, and add a bit more
> "bounce", but I want to preserve a bit of the crude quality of the early
> toons.
I thought it was interesting that the shortcuts you took in the
animation worked as a sort of axle for the motion -- the contrast
between the stable parts and the moving parts of the image worked to
your advantage.
> > He's so buoyant I expect something grand guignol to beset him.
>
> He is supposed to have a kind of Harold Lloyd happy go lucky quality,
> but without all the ambition. Of course he will stumble into trouble at
> every turn.
>
> > Is this character one you're planning to use? He's reminiscent of a golliwog,
> > so that may be a source of friction.
>
> Yes, he is known as Mr. Blank. He is all black mainly becouse black
> characters are easier to animate, or at least it's derived from that
> tendency in the early toons. I hope to avoid any "racial" associations
> and make it clear that he is merely an extremely simplified
> representation of a man who is ink black rather than any realistic
> color. There's probably no way to totally avoid the "racial"
> associations in these fractious times, but I will try to avoid any
> explicit or implicit references to "race".
>
> I've balanced him with Mr. White who is a negative image of Blank with a
> bowler hat and wide tie.
But, but...
> I'm not sure if this makes the situation worse
> but hopefully the mirrored simplified facial features will make clear
> the characters' reduction to symbols.
I suppose you could always change White's name to Mr. Wipe or
something to that effect, but it may never be an issue. Depends on the
level of paranoia in whoever sees it. Care to kick around some of your
plot notions?
> > The Little Rascals-type music was easy to imagine without your having
> > to prompt me. Robert Crumb's Cheap Suit Serenaders once covered that
> > theme and that version sprang to mind.
>
> I'll have to pick up one of their albums one of these days, if I can
> find them. You'd like the "Beau Hunks" who were associated w/ Crumb.
> He did some art for their recordings of the Rascals composer Leroy Shield:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005YQ4/qid=1063509627/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/103-6909268-9789430?v=glance&s=music
>
> if you can listen to the samples (scroll down), "Beautiful Lady" was the
> track I had in mind... unfortunately the disk is tough to find
It was fun, but I thought their sound lacked edge. The best thing
about the Serenaders was their sloppiness. You could always just copy
the music from a video soundtrack, but I thought you intended to play
the music yourself (to save the expense, if nothing else). Or you
could put a request to one of the mp3 groups, some of which are rather
specialised. If you do, maybe try to find Temperance 7 while you're at
it. They were a British group in the early 60's, along with The
Alberts and the like, that humorously revived atavistic jazz styles.
> They do have a disc of Raymond Scott's music (Warner Bros. cartoon
> music), and other stuff that may still be in stores.
Scott's stuff, you probably know, pre-existed the cartoons. On the
down side, the music may be too over-exposed at this point to want to
use; on the up side, Scott managed to get a fine audio quality for his
time, so it might be good to hear the originals for a change in a
cartoon. A few years ago, a jazz combo (Don Byron, "Bug Music")
recreated some of Scott's recordings, doing a decent job though
naturally some of the personality of the originals is missing.
> > For other old-time recordings,
> > maybe too old actually, you might check the on-line Edison cylinder
> > archive (there's a Portland, Oregon connection, incidentally):
> > http://www.tinfoil.com/
>
> Yes, too early... but very very interesting. "The Dixie Rube" was the
> kind of thing that might make for a good old style tune though.
Some of the recordings have a creepy quality which is nice, but the
music tends to be dead on its feet. I believe it wasn't until the 20's
that they started recording music that had life in it.
-- Parry
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