| Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed |
Plus ca change plus c'es .. |
| elag (elag@cloud9.net) |
2003/07/29 22:21 |
Path: news.nzbot.com!not-for-mail
From: elag <elag@cloud9.net>
Newsgroups: alt.surrealism
Subject: Re: Season of the Severed Head, resumed
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:21:39 -0400
Organization: Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose
Message-ID: <3F2747D1.222463BD@cloud9.net>
Reply-To: elag@cloud9.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <36a623f.0306160114.37c13164@posting.google.com> <3EF92577.2C416B22@cloud9.net> <36a623f.0306291033.316eebf6@posting.google.com> <3F019957.AA8E8C70@cloud9.net> <36a623f.0307041253.4b40b873@posting.google.com> <3F066371.15889405@cloud9.net> <36a623f.0307062123.7ac18d03@posting.google.com> <3F0A3C4D.8AC42312@cloud9.net> <36a623f.0307170044.64d2cff1@posting.google.com> <3F18D735.BB78DA99@cloud9.net> <36a623f.0307210303.d9f8b7f@posting.google.com> <3F1F7B7C.3C04CCD4@cloud9.net> <36a623f.0307290239.680547a3@posting.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com
Lines: 286
Xref: news.nzbot.com alt.surrealism:237
Parry wrote:
>
> elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F1F7B7C.3C04CCD4@cloud9.net>...
> > Parry wrote:
> > >
> > > elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F18D735.BB78DA99@cloud9.net>...
> > > [snips]
> > > > > > If I may, I'll suggest a few favorite gems which represent the pinnacle
> > > > > > of the silent era...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sunrise (1927) F.W. Murnau, Pandora's Box (1928) G.W. Pabst, The Crowd
> > > > > > (1928) King Vidor, The Lodger (1926) Hitchcock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've purposely restricted these to more available titles, and I've
> > > > > > avoided comedies because the list would be 100 films long.
> > > > >
> > > > > Available in some places, but I'd probably have to go to Moosomin to
> > > > > find titles like those. Sadly, I haven't seen any of those films. But
> > > > > as I said most of the ones I have been able to see left a great
> > > > > impression on me. Particularly Stroheim's "Greed" and "Foolish Wives,"
> > > > > most anything by Keaton, "Haxan." And "Nosferatu," "Phantom of the
> > > > > Opera," "Hunchback of Notre Dame." Also "Napoleon," Eisenstein, a
> > > > > couple of Fritz Lang. Not to forget the shorts -- comedies, Melies,
> > > > > "Un Chien Andalou." The titles you mentioned are on my wish-list,
> > > > > along with Feuillade serials and some Tod Browning. A fellow in
> > > > > England reported seeing "Unholy Three" with live accompaniment
> > > > > provided by John Cale. Yikes.
> > > >
> > > > There are no decent video stores, library collections, repertory/art
> > > > houses, museum film societies in your area? I guess you could buy a few
> > > > of the best ones if you can spare the cotter.
> > > >
> > > > I kind of like the John Cale idea. I can't imagine what it might sound
> > > > like. I'm looking at stills from the film right now and I still can't
> > > > imagine it. I wonder if it will be as hated as the version of
> > > > Metropolis w/ pop songs? I saw that one and at the time it didn't
> > > > bother me and I did like the tinting. I wonder what I'd think if I saw
> > > > it now.
> > >
> > > I don't know if the Cale performance was recorded for release. I hope
> > > it was. In my own humble music experiments, when I'm against the wall
> > > I ask myself "what would JC do?" I expect his soundtrack had no pop
> > > songs and was probably instrumental piano several planets removed from
> > > Queen.
> >
> > I read about his score for THE UNKNOWN, which supposedly used "a very
> > synthesized artificial tone which did not fit in with the film", but I
> > don't know if it was anything like the UNHOLY THREE score.
>
> My error. Undoubtedly I misremembered the message and confused the
> titles of the two films (both by Browning, starring Chaney), neither
> of which I've seen. The title "Unholy Three" tends to stick in my head
> because of an absurd plot device used in one of the versions --
> something concerning a climatic courtroom scene where a ventriloquist
> puts words in the mouth of a witness on the stand.
>
> Cale still makes potent music, but much of his synthesizer soundtrack
> work is his most inconsequential stuff. A "very synthesized artificial
> tone" would seem to fit a film called "The Unknown," though.
I haven't seen that one so it will have to remain unknown for now. Have
you seen the talkie version of "Unholy Three"?
....
> > > Videos for silents often come will dull orchestral accompaniment, so
> > > sometimes I'll just turn the volume off and play a cd of quiet piano
> > > music, which is generally effective. Once the library ran a silent
> > > that had come without a soundtrack so we just played an Erik Satie cd
> > > along to it. Invariably, sections of the music and film will have
> > > fortuitous coincidence, and people were actually asking how we had
> > > managed to sync the music and image. And one boring day I cobbled
> > > together a soundtrack for "Sherlock Jr." using the fantastic player
> > > piano pieces of Conlon Nancarrow. I thought it worked out terrific
> > > and, again, mostly by accident.
> >
> > The mind seeks connexions and usually finds them. It's amazing how
> > often playing random music w/ images creates the impression of careful
> > sync. Nearly anything will sync up w/ a film for short stretches. This
> > is a good lesson for an editor to learn.
> >
> > Have you heard the Urban Legend" about "Dark Side Of The Moon"
> > (intentionally) synching perfectly w/ "Wizard of Oz"?
>
> Yes. All that's need to achieve the perfect sync are some psychedelic
> drugs.
With the right drugs, the thrum of a jet engine will sync perfectly with
the mind control signals being broadcast by the "secret" government, as
well as putting a Bach fugue to shame.
>
> > > [snips]
> > > > > > > Another time I crudely re-edited an 8mm copy of
> > > > > > > a silent film and made a soundtrack for it from a Popeye the Sailor
> > > > > > > album. It was almost watchable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd be willing to watch it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder what ever became of it. It's sort of a lost... um, whatever
> > > > > the opposite of "treasure" is.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps the lost object has a power far beyond the actual object. The
> > > > memory of the object influences future objects in a positive way that
> > > > confrontation with the actual objects flaws could not.
> > >
> > > I think so, though in this case the film was quite a mess and its
> > > flaws were the best thing about it. Fortunately, those flaws were
> > > numerous and massive.
> >
> > I prefer flawed to slick any old time. Flaws can be endearing when they
> > are artifacts of reaching for heights which can not yet be seen.
>
> Yes, which makes me think of director Jose Marins again. While his
> first Coffin Joe movie is decent the subsequent ones are often
> incomprehensible messes, but at least they're *interesting*
> incomprehensible messes. Another fave director is the prolific Jess
> Franco, whose films are wildly variable in their quality, budget and
> internal logic. Not knowing what to expect from his movies is half the
> fun of watching them, along with the weird bits of inspiration that
> pop up. For me, it's generally a question of an open vs. closed
> approach to movies. If one insists a work be "closed" -- that is, a
> self-contained system of narrative and style -- then a film's "flaws"
> must be viewed as distractions and failures. I would define an "open"
> approach as: appreciating the film's exciting bits whether they were
> intentional or not, considering film viewing as a subjective
> experience influenced by personal experience and preference, looking
> for subtexts that cause the mind to wander outside the film's frame,
> and so on. Franco's films usually provide a prime opportunity for such
> viewing.
A good approach can be simply using non-pros as actors and allowing
improvisation. Even with a script and shot list the unexpected is bound
to happen. I also like a hand held camera and "open form" or loose
framing. Even if the image is stable (as w/ a steadi-cam) and the
motion choreographed the whole film is enlivened by the dynamic framing.
Sometimes I think that imposing rigorous limitations (in ever changing
experiments) is the best way to find those exceptional moments. I'm
talking about tricks like shooting chronologically even when it's
logistically innefficient or giving the actors the scene only on the day
of the shoot and not letting them know where their character is going.
The rigid framework forces one to think and act in new and different
ways. It forces one to "stretch" a bit. Of course, this type of thing
can be rather hard to corral.
>
> > > > > > > What sort of approaches do you think you could take? Perhaps just
> > > > > > > filming with the intention of projecting the final result without
> > > > > > > sound? Or are there other aspects of silents which appeal to you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, what I'm thinking of right now is making a silent cartoon w/
> > > > > > synchronized music roughly in the style of 20's cartoon's, which I've
> > > > > > lately been researching. It's really just a convenient peg upon which
> > > > > > to hang a loosely structured series of visual gags, while borrowing the
> > > > > > more absurd and dreamlike ideas from throughout the history of the early toons.
> > > > >
> > > > > McLaren was influenced by Emile Cohl. One never knows where a squiggly
> > > > > line may end up.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I guess all animators are at least indirectly influenced by that
> > > > early stuff. I just dubbed a library copy of a collection of early
> > > > animation, and I'll say that it is valuable to occasionally go back to
> > > > the source. For all their flaws they do have a certain charm.
> > > >
> > > > > > I like the idea of working in a simple and graphic style and borrowing
> > > > > > some of my favorite themes from the Jazz age like Rum Runners, Hobos &
> > > > > > Flappers. It doesn't have to literally seem like a lost film from the
> > > > > > era but that's the general idea visually. Thematically, the story board
> > > > > > is looking increasingly like early Fleischer Bros. stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lots of metamorphosing?
> > > >
> > > > It is hard to describe as I'm still developing the ideas. I do want to
> > > > hold to the basic concept that "everything in the drawn world is of the
> > > > same stuff".
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to return to the "Out Of The Inkwell" literality, but I do
> > > > want to create a plastic world.
> > > >
> > > > To give you an idea of the concept... the story so far involves two
> > > > characters who chase a dropped dime down into the sewers and encounter a
> > > > light fingered rat, albino alligators, rum runners distilling juniper
> > > > juice, and hobos riding the rails.
> > >
> > > Sort of Ed Norton in Wonderland?
> >
> > I'd rather it be Ed Wood in Blunderland. A few Caroll jokes wouldn't be
> > out of place in this sort of thing... either that or Atlantis.
> >
> > > Personally, I like stories about futile searches down holes. Consider Oak Island! Such a hapless trip
> > > was also basically the subject of the only short fiction I've ever had
> > > published. In my cartoon, the two searchers would follow the dime down
> > > the sewer then into an alligator's mouth, where they would find a new
> > > landscape and ride the rails off the edge of the earth.
>
> ...and as they plummet through space would discover the twinkling
> stars to be spinning dimes.
>
> > My characters, Mr. Blank & Mr. White, won't go quite so far... the Earth
> > is room enough when you're sailing in a newspaper boat.
>
> Doctor Faustroll used a sieve for a boat, so why not?
Why not, indeed. In cartoons everything is possible! Going back to my
H0llyw00d Flatlands excerpts...
"Everything in the drawn world is of the same stuff."
>
> > > > > > At the very least it will be a load of fun to make.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sounds interesting. How do you intend to animate it?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't quite figured out all of the technical issues, but it will be
> > > > a digital creation. I'll use 2D animation software and a drawing tablet
> > > > along w/ Photoshop and possibly scanned images to create a more or less
> > > > fully animated B&W digital tape. Xfer to film is a possibility.
> > > >
> > > > I've already done some low res "pencil tests" using freeware
> > > > "GifBuilder" and Photoshop.
> > > >
> > > > I'll record the music myself using an old guitar, a cheap harmonica, a
> > > > wheezy organ, an antique cow bell and any other noisemakers I can dig
> > > > up. I imagine that sync will be a nightmare but I'll figure it out as I
> > > > go along.
> > > >
> > > > Because of the time necessary to animate something like this I won't be
> > > > able to start in earnest for quite some time.
> > >
> > > It's certainly piqued my interest.
> >
> > I wish I could start now... maybe in 6 months or so. At least it gives
> > me plenty of time to consider bad puns to use for a title.
>
> Hopefully you'll be discussing this project here further. Any place we
> can see your drawings?
I could post queries regarding "which way is it funnier?..." every once
in awhile... If it's ever shown anywhere I could invite y'all.
I guess I could post a couple of the rough gif loops I made when I
started thinking about the idea. If you can think of a good place to
post them, let me know.
|
| Follow-ups: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 |
| 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 |
|
|