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From: elag <elag@cloud9.net>
Newsgroups: alt.surrealism
Subject: Re: 14 July 1789
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:07:15 -0400
Organization: Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose
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Paul Heslop wrote:
>
> elag wrote:
> >
> > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > >
> > > elag wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > elag wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul Heslop wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > prefuse 73 wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > lucat bene, der elag <elag@cloud9.net> goh, a hunnert truxx inero,
> > > > > > > > sumwit kowz n' sumwit duxx on Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:50:43 -0400:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Emilie Gruchow wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> If anything, Jefferson's manner of speaking certainly counters any
> > > > > > > > >> arguments that the founding father was a devoted man of the Christian
> > > > > > > > >> church. Though I do agree with his acceptance of humanity's tendency
> > > > > > > > >> to duke it out in large groups every 150 years or so, I would shy away
> > > > > > > > >> from assigning it to a higher calling of nature (ie Deism). I am not
> > > > > > > > >> completely dismissive of religion myself, though I am skeptical, but
> > > > > > > > >> conducting one's primeval head butting in the name of some higher
> > > > > > > > >> power seems a stretch even to the agnostics on this side of the pond.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Personally I'm agnostic, I don't believe in gods.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > based on what you've just typed, you are 'atheist'. *not 'agnostic'.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > according to merriam-webster:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > an 'atheist' is someone that denies the existence of (a) god.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > an 'agnostic' either doubts the truth of religion (noun), or is one
> > > > > > > > that is uncertain of all claims to knowledge (adjective). an apropos
> > > > > > > > synonym would be 'doubter'.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > so, what are you again?...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i, for one, am 'atheist'.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I always thought I was an atheist until I read that... now I doubt that
> > > > > > > I am :O)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As Bunuel used to say: "Thank god I'm an atheist".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for me... I hold to Thomas Huxley's definition of agnosticism.
> > > > > > Huxley used "agnostic" to describe not a creed, but a method." This
> > > > > > method of thought
> > > > > > advocates that people "do not pretend that conclusions are certain which
> > > > > > are not
> > > > > > demonstrated or demonstrable." An agnostic doesn't necessarily believe
> > > > > > or disbelieve in a god -- he or she doesn't profess to know if there's a
> > > > > > god at all. Huxley's writings suggest that it's impossible to ever know
> > > > > > if a god exists or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, I would say I that I don't believe in gods, and that the existence
> > > > > > of gods is unknown and unknowable. An Atheist declares that there is no
> > > > > > god, which is somewhat different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This has been a public service announcement.
> > > > >
> > > > > :O) Sounds right for me then. I have often, in times of sorrow, wished
> > > > > there was a god, but I don't see much evidence of one.
> > > >
> > > > I never really wished for one, but I do find that the word comes up
> > > > distressingly often when I prick my thumb or stub my toe. I've tried to
> > > > switch to more amusing phrases like: "Oh Guard", "For Chrome's Sake",
> > > > "Dog Damn It"... but those don't come nearly as automatically.
> > >
> > > Doesn't quite have the same ring.
> >
> > I could always go for "down home" expressions like: "dagnabit",
> > "Consarnit" and "tarnation". Those just roll off the tongue.
>
> Grizzled old prospector time?
I was thinkink about farmers, but prospectors make an even better image.
I'm thinking about those old California prospectors known as sourdoughs.
I love San Fransisco sourdough bread. I read that the old sourdoughs
would start their sourdough fermenting by spitting in it!
> >
> > > As a youth I really didn't believe at
> > > all, but as I got older and my obsessions took over I guess it becomes
> > > harder to ignore the stuff. My OCD is what they call a superstitious
> > > OCD, meaning my mind will assume some disaster will befall me or others
> > > if I do or don't do certain things... I find it harder and harder to
> > > say, without a doubt, that God does not exist, that's when the panic
> > > sets in, like right now because I just wrote it :O)
> >
> > I'm sorry to hear that, but at least you're aware of it. That's the
> > first step towards wiping it out.
>
> heh, I've been aware of it for about twenty years :O) It's kinda bigger
> than me, I suppose I just have one of them psyches.
I say if it's bigger than you, stand on a chair. But watch out you
don't hit your head on the ceiling.
>
> >
> > > They must rake people in with OCD!
> >
> > Probably... check out the film "Wiseblood".
>
> Hmmm haven't heard of that... have to do a search
It's by John Huston, BTW. imdb.com is a good place to start.
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