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From: parry@perfectmail.com (Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.surrealism
Subject: Re: 14 July 1789
Date: 21 Jul 2003 04:08:09 -0700
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elag <elag@cloud9.net> wrote in message news:<3F18C249.AC79B0EA@cloud9.net>...
> Paul Heslop wrote:
> >
> > prefuse 73 wrote:
> > >
> > > lucat bene, der elag <elag@cloud9.net> goh, a hunnert truxx inero,
> > > sumwit kowz n' sumwit duxx on Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:50:43 -0400:
> > >
> > > >Emilie Gruchow wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> If anything, Jefferson's manner of speaking certainly counters any
> > > >> arguments that the founding father was a devoted man of the Christian
> > > >> church. Though I do agree with his acceptance of humanity's tendency
> > > >> to duke it out in large groups every 150 years or so, I would shy away
> > > >> from assigning it to a higher calling of nature (ie Deism). I am not
> > > >> completely dismissive of religion myself, though I am skeptical, but
> > > >> conducting one's primeval head butting in the name of some higher
> > > >> power seems a stretch even to the agnostics on this side of the pond.
> > > >
> > > >Personally I'm agnostic, I don't believe in gods.
> > > >
> > > based on what you've just typed, you are 'atheist'. *not 'agnostic'.
> > >
> > > according to merriam-webster:
> > >
> > > an 'atheist' is someone that denies the existence of (a) god.
> > >
> > > an 'agnostic' either doubts the truth of religion (noun), or is one
> > > that is uncertain of all claims to knowledge (adjective). an apropos
> > > synonym would be 'doubter'.
> > >
> > > so, what are you again?...
> > >
> > > i, for one, am 'atheist'.
> > >
> > I always thought I was an atheist until I read that... now I doubt that
> > I am :O)
>
> As Bunuel used to say: "Thank god I'm an atheist".
>
> As for me... I hold to Thomas Huxley's definition of agnosticism.
> Huxley used "agnostic" to describe not a creed, but a method." This
> method of thought
> advocates that people "do not pretend that conclusions are certain which
> are not
> demonstrated or demonstrable." An agnostic doesn't necessarily believe
> or disbelieve in a god -- he or she doesn't profess to know if there's a
> god at all. Huxley's writings suggest that it's impossible to ever know
> if a god exists or not.
>
> So, I would say I that I don't believe in gods, and that the existence
> of gods is unknown and unknowable. An Atheist declares that there is no
> god, which is somewhat different.
>
> This has been a public service announcement.
Actually, "a-theist" means one without belief in gods. Or, to
paraphrase the old joke, an atheist is someone who believes in one
less god than a christian does. I consider an "agnostic" to be someone
who feels there is no story too ridiculous to be discounted. If
Huxley's standard of demonstrability were extended to matters beyond
religion -- and there's no reason it shouldn't be, no reason why
religious belief should be made a special case -- the agnostic
position would effectively be that one cannot make conclusions about
anything, for there is vanishingly little about reality that is
absolutely certain. But of course people make conclusions all the time
and thus avoid wasting time with any number of silly propositions.
Would you say you're agnostic about the Roman pantheon of gods?
-- Parry
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