On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 12:10:50 -0600, HMS Victor Victorian
<victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 19:12:25 -0400, Doc NP-f31 wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:04:40 -0600, HMS Victor Victorian
>><victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 01 Jun 2014 19:34:13 -0400, Doc NP-f31 wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 01 Jun 2014 16:43:31 -0600, HMS Victor Victorian
>>>><victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 30 May 2014 08:07:33 -0400, Doc NP-f31 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear Double V,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I apologize for having missed your post for so long. The thread that
>>>>>>you posted to ended up not being the main thread. Allow me to give my
>>>>>>opinion on your interest statement. I will reprint it here to allow
>>>>>>others to follow and join in:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Victor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have long maintained that, to best understand the motivations of
>>>>>>Boylovers, one must view the personal Boylove relationship precisely
>>>>>>as heterosexual relationships are viewed. In other words, to
>>>>>>understand Boylove, you must understand heterosexual love.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I agree completely with your statement. I have loved both boys and
>>>>>>women/girls in my life. When I have fallen in love with a boy, and I
>>>>>>have had that frustrating honor, I have experienced the same emotions
>>>>>>and feelings as I did when I met and fell in love with the young lady
>>>>>>who eventually became my wife.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I remember the moment when I fell in love with my wife. I looked into
>>>>>>her eyes and something grabbed me inside. I knew I wouldn't be the
>>>>>>same thereafter. It was a very similar feeling when I fell in love
>>>>>>with the boy I consider 'the love of my life'. I was looking into his
>>>>>>eyes and that overwhelming feeling of love overtook me. This time I
>>>>>>knew what it meant and it scared me because I knew I could not have
>>>>>>the same sort of relationship with him that I did with her.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The feelings are the same. The instant attraction at first meeting,
>>>>>>the silly, but enjoyable feelings of infatuation, the feeling of
>>>>>>romantic love - they're all the same. We must simply learn to deal
>>>>>>with them differently. I was able to give my boy a real romantic kiss
>>>>>>as I taught him how to kiss when he acquired his first girlfriend.
>>>>>>That kiss blew the top off of my head. It had a similar affect on him
>>>>>>as well, as he asked for another. Two incredible kisses and I wanted
>>>>>>more, but it would have to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The hardest part for me was learning to channel all of my sexual
>>>>>>energy into something else. I had to teach myself to make it about
>>>>>>him. Making it about me would have been disasterous. I was able to
>>>>>>make the right decisions, but that is for another discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would be interested to read the opinion of others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Love to VV and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Doc
>>>>>>NP-f31
>>>>>
>>>>>Dear Doc,
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you for your reply. I had waited some time for a response but,
>>>>>as with other efforts I've made here over a year or more, garnered
>>>>>none.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yet in the interest of discussion, may I ask you:
>>>>>
>>>>>Why would it have been disasterous?
>>>>
>>>>The young man in question is still marginally in my life. He is
>>>>married and has a beautiful daughter. I met with him a few years ago
>>>>before he got married. We had dinner together and were reliving some
>>>>good times. I got serious at one point and asked if he understood how
>>>>head over heels in love him I was. He said he did understand and he
>>>>thanked me for not pushing limits. He said that he would have probably
>>>>done anything for me, but he knows it would have messed with his mind.
>>>>He was happy that he never had to worry about. In his case, it would
>>>>have been a disaster. It would have been beyond selfish on my part.
>>>>There are other situations where things might have worked out. There
>>>>was one where things did. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
>>>>
>>>>Love,
>>>>
>>>>Doc
>>>>NP-f31
>>>
>>>A tantalising conclusion, assuredly. As for your dinner-mate, you
>>>related that you had given him a deep, romantic kiss for the sole
>>>purpose of teaching him how to kiss a girl ... and I was struck by two
>>>possibilities. First, if someone less unselfish than you (that is,
>>>me, of course) were to offer such tutoring, wouldn't he be seduced as
>>>much by giving and receiving that kiss as by offering a life lesson? I
>>>know I would.
>>
>>Hey VV,
>>
>>There was a moment that passed between us during and after the kisses.
>>I know what was running through my mind, and I *think* I have an idea
>>of what was running through his mind. From my perspective I was
>>thinking that I MUST maintain my self control, because I was at the
>>edge of it. I have a feeling that Shawn realized for the first time 1)
>>That the way I felt about him was real in ways he hadn't considered,
>>and 2) that he discovered that he was a sexual being for the first
>>time. He enjoyed those kisses, but I think for him the application of
>>the newly acquired talent on his girlfriend was of greater interest
>>than his effect on me. Still, I know it feels good to discover that
>>you are sexually attractive to others and he appreciated that he had
>>this 'power' over me. He was very affectionate, in his way, for many
>>weeks after that.
>>
>>But more importantly, I had established trust with him. During that
>>moment, he was turned on and had I pursued it, who knows what mmight
>>have occurred. I didn't, he was in control and he felt safe. Later on
>>this would lead to more intimacy of a different type.
>>
>>>I knew of a friend who had purportedly masturbated a young teenage
>>>boy, and after he'd been knocked up by the authorities, explained that
>>>he was simply teaching him a life skill. He got himself in quite a
>>>lot of trouble, not surprisingly.
>>
>>Clearly, we're talking apples and oranges here.
>>
>>>Second, that such a boy as your dinner-mate would have been willing to
>>>give and receive such a kiss indicates emotions deeper than being only
>>>an eager pupil. I'd think that in normal circumstances, to bury or
>>>deny such emotions would naturally result in the "messing" of one's
>>>mind. He apparently indicates quite the opposite.
>>
>>Don't misunderstand me. Shawn loved me and he still does. And he went
>>on to be a normal, horny teenager. But my kisses did not affect his
>>sexuality. He was straight at age 12 and he still is. He had a friend
>>he trusted who showed him how to be an effective kisser. Such
>>experimentation is a hallmark of that phase of our growth and
>>development. When he was in Middle School and High School he remarked
>>to me several times that 'everyone' thought he was a great kisser. And
>>he was, he certainly had the lips for it. ;)
>>
>>Love,
>>
>>Doc
>
>
>Dear Doc,
>
>Two brief comments regarding your last. I do not believe we are
>talking apples versus oranges here at all. A kiss such as you've
>described is as essentially sexual as masturbation, or other similar
>behaviours. Do not make the mistake in believing that such a kiss is
>somehow less serious than masturbation ... you well know there are
>many people who would roundly condemn your actions as equally perverse
>and fundamentally wrong. There are others, and other societies, that
>apply a more liberal measure.
>
>Second, I am somehow disturbed by your conclusion, that "he (Shawn)
>went on to be a normal, horny teenager" and "he was straight at age 12
>and he still is." Why must we insist on this dichotomy of straight or
>gay ... so very common in our society? Cannot a so-called "straight"
>boy engage in "gay" sexual play among chums ... and vice versa? Or is
>that "abnormal?" I would say, recalling my own boyhood, that we did
>plenty of diddling and wiggling about in front of one another ... and
>that is normal behaviour of boys. I never made the distinction
>between gay and straight (normal and abnormal, if you please)
>behaviours until, courtesy of my adolescent peers and society, I was
>compelled to choose ... or at least make the brave show ... and avoid
>being ostricised and humiliated.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>V
>God Save the Queen.
>God Bless the Prince of Wales.
>God Preserve the Windsors.
>Rule Britannia!
Hi VV,
In reply to your concerns:
1)
>A kiss such as you've
>described is as essentially sexual as masturbation, or other similar
>behaviours.
Having been there I must disagree. While there was definitely a sexual
undertone to the kiss, it was NOT tantamount to masturbation. He
kissed me. I simply had explained what to do and how to do it. This
happened in the 1980s and the sexual hysteria we've come to expect
regarding children these days was then only in it's infancy.
2)
>Why must we insist on this dichotomy of straight or
>gay ... so very common in our society?
I don't make the rules, I just live in this world. My point was that
my kiss didn't affect his sexuality. It made him a better kisser. He
had several sexual adventures with his peers around this same time. He
was and is normal. That was my point.
Serenely,
Doc
NP-f31
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