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From: 4s00th <4s00th@hushmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.utb.naughty-boy
Subject: Re: Lord of the Flies Novel
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 14:56:55 -0400
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On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:13:01 -0600, HMS Victor Victorian
<victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
>Dear Friends,
>
>I confess with some embarrassment that for the first time I have read
>William Golding's novel, "Lord of the Flies." I made the mistake, as
>it were, of reading it before retiring each night ... only a chapter
>at a time ... and discovered that with each successive night, my sleep
>became more and more disturbed. What a horrible and sad tale, so at
>odds with my affectionate beliefs, or delusions apparently, of the
>basic goodness of boys! Powerful. Powerful.
>
>I've seen the film several times, and was pleased to see how closely
>it followed Golding's work, although the movie excluded the disturbing
>conversation had between Simon alone in the thicket and the pig's
>fly-encrusted head on a pole. Nevertheless, reading the novel, and
>diving into his prose, affected me far more profoundly than the movie
>ever had. I readily suggest that, my friends, if you have not yet
>read it, do so. It represents the quality of art that earned Golding
>the Nobel Prize later in life.
>
>Many lauded experts have attempted to explain the deep significance of
>"Lord of the Flies." Was it a condemnation of human nature, a treatis
>on the ultimate disintegration and decay of all charity that we
>cherish and value, an apocalyptic vision of a sick society that must
>result when we abandon love and sympathy for one another?
>
>Well, who am I, relatively untutored and unread in the classics, to
>comment intelligently on Golding's purposes? E. L. Epstein's
>analysis, presented in the volume that I read, at least depended on
>Golding's own brief and somewhat superficial motivation, and I think
>him spot on.
>
>With one exception ... and it is one that upset me. In the passages
>where Roger and Jack mercilessly attack and slaughter the sow suckling
>her piglets. There is considerable horror and revulsion, simply done
>in a masterful way, as Golding describes the boys plunging deep into
>her with their spears. Now, in his interpretation, Epstein noted that
>this represented the uncomfortable sexual awaking of young adolescent
>boys ...
>
>And that analysis, which had never and would never occur to me, was
>ever more so revolting than the murder itself!
>
>Do you think Golding intended such a thing, or had Epstein gone
>bonkers like so many other social scientists, over such a Freudian
>idea?
>
>I hope soon to post here several nice clips I've collected from this
>wonderful movie, including a few outtakes.
>
>Sincerely yours,
>HMS Victor Victorian, NP-g18
>
>
>
>God Save the Queen.
>God Bless the Prince of Wales.
>God Preserve the Windsors.
>Rule Britannia!
First, thanks for your concern about me. I don't plan to post much
since I am ... what would be a good word for it ... fucking nuts!
Don't tell my counselor I said that -- he and my friends tend to get
pissed at me when I say such horrible truths about myself. But when my
Borderline Personality Disorder acts up, then I prove pretty much
every bad thing I've ever said about myself. And then, in true BPD
style, I get histrionic and become what my counselor has termed "a
pretty amazing drama queen" in response to the comment that I was a
lousy drama queen.
BTW, I disagree with you about self-delusion -- the root of all evil
(I miss Robert Heinlein!). If you want to delude yourself about your
own abilities or qualities, I guess that's fine if a bit silly. But
one thing that we must never allow ourselves into self-delusion is
anything to do with our boys. It's far too easy to delude ourselves
into thinking that they want the same kind of relationship with us as
we want with them when most of the time they do not. Oh, do we delude
ourselves that our boys are great and awesome and beautiful? I'll
leave that for others to argue, but I don't think that's a delusion.
Regarding LOTF: the one thing I think you fail to take into
consideration is the way boys interact in groups. Individually, they
can be the sweetest people in the world. Put them in a group of boys
and they can be the cruelest -- especially without supervision. They
become overly-competitive, and, unfortunately, one of the things they
do to impress each other is to be cruel. You want to know if a little
boy likes you? See how much he teases you when he's in a group of
boys! And that's primarily what we see in action in LOTF. Add to that
the whole "mob mentality" thing. In most situations, I don't think
boys would degenerate to murder and savagery. But when you're part of
a mob, you stop acting as an individual and the normal, healthy
inhibitions are weakened considerably as the tension and actions
escalate. One of the boys acting in one of the films talked about how
different things felt and got when they were in their make-up and
costumes as opposed to how they felt and acted when they were properly
dressed and sans "war" paint.
So I think it's safe to say that there are several things going on
here -- not the least of which is the whole situation of being
stranded without adult-type supervision on an uninhabited island. The
boys are already stressed out missing the amenities of home and
needing to take responsibility for themselves and their mates.
BTW, do you seriously not know who ALF is or are you just pointing out
the dated reference through hyperbole? You're right, anyone born after
the '80s probably doesn't have much of a clue about ALF.
Regarding the pig-stabbing scene -- I just disagree with anyone who
thinks that sharp objects -- phallic shaped sharp objects -- stabbing
into bodies is any kind of symbolism for sexuality. The very idea is
Freudian taken to the extreme! Boys express their burgeoning sexuality
in much more concrete ways. Symbolism is often lost on boys of that
age. There was a great scene in the movie The Devil's Playground (an
Aussie movie) where two of the boys of the boarding school are
discussing sizes as seen in the shower. As they start talking about
the biggest boy, you see them clenching their fists around clumps of
grass and tearing the grass out in handfuls. Symbolism? Hell, no --
they're just doing what they want to be doing, grasping and stroking!
Just my 2 cents worth ...
-- 4s00th@hushmail.com
My email is always available for those looking for and willing to supply support in the effort to remain boy-lovers and not become child-molesters de jure if not de facto.
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