In article <crvm36lgbtpe9533c438hlpaf7da9qmub3@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:30:29 -0400, Mover <Mover@Watch-Me.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <Grant-me-that-1207101@Grant.Grant>, +Grant.
> ><+Grant@grant.grant> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <u66m361c3tpj75d08qe1s21aid0k70lthe@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
> >> Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 11 Jul 2010 19:53:02 -0500, " +Grant. " <+Grant@grant.grant> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >In article <92ik36lcnk0tf563kvgl0rp8f6n8qg5nop@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
> >> > >Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:56:32 -0400, "Ulysses" <ulysses@easyweb.com>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >You got me wrong everyone
> >> > >> >I am a boy lover, a girl lover, a man lover and a women lover
> >> > >> >in other words I love people, good or bad, young or old
> >> > >> >My heart goes out to anyone hurt, no matter what the age or the sex
> >> > >> >AND if that person is anyone BUT a young boy, I would have stopped
> >> > >> >and
> >> > >> >helped
> >> > >> >Why ??? This is the society today, And I will not jeopardize my
> >> > >> >future
> >> > >> >by
> >> > >> >helping any boy
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> I see.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Yet you would stop to help a little girl? How sad, don't you think?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I apologise for having misunderstood your nature as of being a
> >> > >> Boylover. I'll not make the same mistake again.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Sincerely,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> HMS Victor Victorian NP-g18
> >> > >
> >> > >I know 4 other people who have had similar experiences to mine, one of
> >> > >them twice.
> >> > >
> >> > >I was writing from the same viewpoint as Ulysses said he was. It
> >> > >doesn't matter who does the help, the results, if any, are the same.
> >> > >NOBODY can withstand what the police and media would do if they could.
> >> > >Innocence doesn't count. EVERY American teacher knows this very well.
> >> > >If they didn't before they started on their first teaching job, they
> >> > >would know all about it after their first teachers union meeting, or
> >> > >even after their first step into the teacher's lounge at work. The
> >> > >smallest accusation of any kind of child abuse, even at the defense of
> >> > >one's own life, even if the entire class says it didn't happen, will
> >> > >make a teacher unemployable, and that will be the least of his/her
> >> > >troubles. There are teachers who are still in prison, who have been
> >> > >proved innocent, who even their "victims" say are innocent.
> >> > >
> >> > >This is getting worse and worse, the more the evangelistic "Right"
> >> > >keeps whipping up the frenzied mob, while their own demagogues are
> >> > >pushed out of the closet by their own careless sexual escapades.
> >> > >
> >> > >What besides that, has caused this hysteria?
> >> > >
> >> > >The media looking for sensationalism.
> >> > >They blow things out of proportion about strangers, to make parents
> >> > >fear, and so pay attention to the media and their advertisers, when
> >> > >it's the parents who commit most child abuse, including sexual.
> >> > >
> >> > >The sexual offender register.
> >> > >Anybody can go online now and see where sex offenders live. That
> >> > >increases the hysteria that's already eating at people.
> >> > >
> >> > >One last delicate thing.
> >> > >With respect, but I wouldn't dare to presume I know all about your
> >> > >countrymen, and their families, and how they live their lives in your
> >> > >country, based on the few people from England I know in my own country,
> >> > >just as I wouldn't dare presume what I have experienced myself, is what
> >> > >other people have experienced, and no more, and no less.
> >> > >I have lived and worked in other countries, been maimed and almost
> >> > >killed, and seen people who were tortured to death, including CHILDREN,
> >> > >by people who presumed some of those things, and presumed their Right
> >> > >is the the only Right that has value. I learned my lesson the hard way.
> >> > >I don't recommend this way to other people, just hope they do learn it.
> >> > >
> >> > >Stepping off the soapbox, and getting another fattening snack,
> >> > >apologizing for what I wrote if there are objections, and for making
> >> > >too much noise chomping on what you call "crisps".
> >> > >
> >> > >Crunch crunch!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dear Grant and Ulysses,
> >> >
> >> > Clearly both of you are of the same mind regarding the present
> >> > hysteria, as you describe it, and I completely understand your
> >> > emotional responses. Nevertheless, I stand by my comments. I think
> >> > you would not find the situation here significantly different from
> >> > there, and that hysteria is sure to be found if you look for it hard
> >> > enough.
> >> >
> >> > As to your last comment, Grant. Your point here is, I confess, unclear
> >> > to me. Presumption is entirely based on one's experience and one's
> >> > expectations. Your represent your experience as surprising broad and
> >> > deep, and based on that experience you presume that Americans
> >> > generally share the hysteria that you've personally witnessed. Yet in
> >> > the same breath, you seem to refute the very idea of extending such a
> >> > presumption on others. My dear sir. That is precisely what a
> >> > presumption is.
> >> >
> >> > Your presumptions may indeed stop you from helping an injured boy. I
> >> > shall not embrace that position as my own, but pray I have the bravery
> >> > to respond according to the Gold Rule, should the circumstances
> >> > require. For however delusional I may be, I do not wish to live in,
> >> > nor recognise, such a world as the one you portray. For my nature, it
> >> > is simply impossible.
> >> >
> >> > Sincerely Yours,
> >> >
> >> > V
> >> > God Save the Queen.
> >> > God Bless the Prince of Wales.
> >> > God Preserve the Windsors.
> >> > Rule Britannia!
> >>
> >>
> >> You misunderstand me. I described the risk, not what I would do.
> >> You presumed again. LOL
> >> My point about presumption is not so much about what it is, but that we
> >> shouldn't do it. It creates false images in us of other people. We
> >> should not think we know things about other people, societies and
> >> countries, which we in real fact do not know, because it's much harder
> >> to unlearn wrong things, than it is to learn new things accurately.
> >>
> >> I try very hard not to presume at all.
> >>
> >> I didn't presume about Americans. I didn't have to. There are lots of
> >> surveys and analysis after analysis about these issues. Every worried
> >> teacher here knows all about it. It's a matter of survival. No
> >> presumption to the contrary is going to change the reality we have to
> >> live with every day. It's going to get worse. With the bad economy, a
> >> lot of teachers are loosing their jobs, forcing the remaining teachers
> >> to do more with less. This increased stress is going to make everything
> >> worse. I had to take all this into account in choosing where I would
> >> work this fall. I did a lot of research on this, which is why I'm
> >> confident to post here on it now.
> >>
> >> By the way, presumption can be called arrogance, but you can forget I
> >> just wrote that. LOL
> >>
> >> I have stopped to help a child many times. I would do it again, because
> >> all I have to lose is me, and any child is worth more than me.
> >>
> >> I might not stop to help a child, if I had a wife and children who
> >> depended on me for support and protection. Depending on the exact
> >> situation, I might not want to risk their futures. Family
> >> responsibility might take precedence over being a good Samaritan. I
> >> wouldn't be happy about it, but there it is.
> >>
> >> Some people might call me brave or cowardly in one or both of those
> >> situations, but I would reject those labels, and the romanticism behind
> >> them. I would call it intelligent risk management.
> >>
> >> You DO live in the world I portray. I hope you never have that harsh
> >> reality forcibly impressed on you. I care about and respect you. I
> >> wouldn't like you to be hurt that way, or any other way.
> >>
> >> I wonder what Doc would have to say about all of this.
> >>
> >> I wonder what Stevie would say. I'll find out when I write it. Stories
> >> up to #29 are written, where he meets Victoria, and I have the outlines
> >> for a lot of others, and the ending. But then, Sir Arthur tried to kill
> >> off Holmes, and Fleming tried to kill off Bond, but like a bad penny...
> >>
> >> A hint:
> >> Sooner or later, Stevie will find out very dramatically he shouldn't be
> >> telling all his secrets to his penpal Carlos. When that happens, will
> >> he stop? Maybe. LOL
> >>
> >> I will post the next story, #15 "Kittens and Privacy" later today.
> >
> >
> >Here is my comment on this discussion:
> >
> >There is room for both. There is need for both.
> >
> >We need Pragmatics to make things work.
> >
> >We need Romantics to remind us what to work for.
> >
> >Therefore, you both are part of the same truth.
> >
> >We need the discussion to help us see this.
> >
> >Mover, philosophicating
>
>
> Dear Philosophicator Mover,
>
> Eloquently said.
>
> V
> God Save the Queen.
> God Bless the Prince of Wales.
> God Preserve the Windsors.
> Rule Britannia!
I agree.
Mover mostly irritates. Sometimes he produces a pearl.
And sometimes *I* should just clam up! LOL
Thanks for putting up with me.
It's not a coincidence. I told Doc in a post I would name an already
planned character Victoria in your honor, because she writes
beautifully. The only change is the name. I didn't realize until after
our discussions just now that more than the name fits. She feels about
things like you do. Strange, isn't it?
She changes him.
I'm not going to kill Stevie. A real author should have more respect
for his readers than to do something like that. We still have to end it
sometime. He grows up and our group will lose interest in him. He WILL
stop writing to Carlos. I planned the ending when I wrote the first of
the continuation of the Stevie stories. A book has to have it's covers.
There will be some surprises along the way. I have already built them
into the stories. There are clues. (just imagine my attempted evil
laughter at this)
I'm trying to use ideas and techniques from as many genres of writing
as I can, and about as many odd subjects as I can, and explore as many
important ideas as I can, in my stories. Why? Because I can. LOL
There is another reason. I don't plan to make a career out of this, so
I'm trying to learn as much as I can, while I still can.
There are a lot of cans up there. I hope they don't fall on me! LOL
--
Grant
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