On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:30:29 -0400, Mover <Mover@Watch-Me.com> wrote:
>In article <Grant-me-that-1207101@Grant.Grant>, +Grant.
><+Grant@grant.grant> wrote:
>
>> In article <u66m361c3tpj75d08qe1s21aid0k70lthe@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
>> Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 11 Jul 2010 19:53:02 -0500, " +Grant. " <+Grant@grant.grant> wrote:
>> >
>> > >In article <92ik36lcnk0tf563kvgl0rp8f6n8qg5nop@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
>> > >Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:56:32 -0400, "Ulysses" <ulysses@easyweb.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >You got me wrong everyone
>> > >> >I am a boy lover, a girl lover, a man lover and a women lover
>> > >> >in other words I love people, good or bad, young or old
>> > >> >My heart goes out to anyone hurt, no matter what the age or the sex
>> > >> >AND if that person is anyone BUT a young boy, I would have stopped and
>> > >> >helped
>> > >> >Why ??? This is the society today, And I will not jeopardize my future
>> > >> >by
>> > >> >helping any boy
>> > >> >
>> > >> I see.
>> > >>
>> > >> Yet you would stop to help a little girl? How sad, don't you think?
>> > >>
>> > >> I apologise for having misunderstood your nature as of being a
>> > >> Boylover. I'll not make the same mistake again.
>> > >>
>> > >> Sincerely,
>> > >>
>> > >> HMS Victor Victorian NP-g18
>> > >
>> > >I know 4 other people who have had similar experiences to mine, one of
>> > >them twice.
>> > >
>> > >I was writing from the same viewpoint as Ulysses said he was. It
>> > >doesn't matter who does the help, the results, if any, are the same.
>> > >NOBODY can withstand what the police and media would do if they could.
>> > >Innocence doesn't count. EVERY American teacher knows this very well.
>> > >If they didn't before they started on their first teaching job, they
>> > >would know all about it after their first teachers union meeting, or
>> > >even after their first step into the teacher's lounge at work. The
>> > >smallest accusation of any kind of child abuse, even at the defense of
>> > >one's own life, even if the entire class says it didn't happen, will
>> > >make a teacher unemployable, and that will be the least of his/her
>> > >troubles. There are teachers who are still in prison, who have been
>> > >proved innocent, who even their "victims" say are innocent.
>> > >
>> > >This is getting worse and worse, the more the evangelistic "Right"
>> > >keeps whipping up the frenzied mob, while their own demagogues are
>> > >pushed out of the closet by their own careless sexual escapades.
>> > >
>> > >What besides that, has caused this hysteria?
>> > >
>> > >The media looking for sensationalism.
>> > >They blow things out of proportion about strangers, to make parents
>> > >fear, and so pay attention to the media and their advertisers, when
>> > >it's the parents who commit most child abuse, including sexual.
>> > >
>> > >The sexual offender register.
>> > >Anybody can go online now and see where sex offenders live. That
>> > >increases the hysteria that's already eating at people.
>> > >
>> > >One last delicate thing.
>> > >With respect, but I wouldn't dare to presume I know all about your
>> > >countrymen, and their families, and how they live their lives in your
>> > >country, based on the few people from England I know in my own country,
>> > >just as I wouldn't dare presume what I have experienced myself, is what
>> > >other people have experienced, and no more, and no less.
>> > >I have lived and worked in other countries, been maimed and almost
>> > >killed, and seen people who were tortured to death, including CHILDREN,
>> > >by people who presumed some of those things, and presumed their Right
>> > >is the the only Right that has value. I learned my lesson the hard way.
>> > >I don't recommend this way to other people, just hope they do learn it.
>> > >
>> > >Stepping off the soapbox, and getting another fattening snack,
>> > >apologizing for what I wrote if there are objections, and for making
>> > >too much noise chomping on what you call "crisps".
>> > >
>> > >Crunch crunch!
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Grant and Ulysses,
>> >
>> > Clearly both of you are of the same mind regarding the present
>> > hysteria, as you describe it, and I completely understand your
>> > emotional responses. Nevertheless, I stand by my comments. I think
>> > you would not find the situation here significantly different from
>> > there, and that hysteria is sure to be found if you look for it hard
>> > enough.
>> >
>> > As to your last comment, Grant. Your point here is, I confess, unclear
>> > to me. Presumption is entirely based on one's experience and one's
>> > expectations. Your represent your experience as surprising broad and
>> > deep, and based on that experience you presume that Americans
>> > generally share the hysteria that you've personally witnessed. Yet in
>> > the same breath, you seem to refute the very idea of extending such a
>> > presumption on others. My dear sir. That is precisely what a
>> > presumption is.
>> >
>> > Your presumptions may indeed stop you from helping an injured boy. I
>> > shall not embrace that position as my own, but pray I have the bravery
>> > to respond according to the Gold Rule, should the circumstances
>> > require. For however delusional I may be, I do not wish to live in,
>> > nor recognise, such a world as the one you portray. For my nature, it
>> > is simply impossible.
>> >
>> > Sincerely Yours,
>> >
>> > V
>> > God Save the Queen.
>> > God Bless the Prince of Wales.
>> > God Preserve the Windsors.
>> > Rule Britannia!
>>
>>
>> You misunderstand me. I described the risk, not what I would do.
>> You presumed again. LOL
>> My point about presumption is not so much about what it is, but that we
>> shouldn't do it. It creates false images in us of other people. We
>> should not think we know things about other people, societies and
>> countries, which we in real fact do not know, because it's much harder
>> to unlearn wrong things, than it is to learn new things accurately.
>>
>> I try very hard not to presume at all.
>>
>> I didn't presume about Americans. I didn't have to. There are lots of
>> surveys and analysis after analysis about these issues. Every worried
>> teacher here knows all about it. It's a matter of survival. No
>> presumption to the contrary is going to change the reality we have to
>> live with every day. It's going to get worse. With the bad economy, a
>> lot of teachers are loosing their jobs, forcing the remaining teachers
>> to do more with less. This increased stress is going to make everything
>> worse. I had to take all this into account in choosing where I would
>> work this fall. I did a lot of research on this, which is why I'm
>> confident to post here on it now.
>>
>> By the way, presumption can be called arrogance, but you can forget I
>> just wrote that. LOL
>>
>> I have stopped to help a child many times. I would do it again, because
>> all I have to lose is me, and any child is worth more than me.
>>
>> I might not stop to help a child, if I had a wife and children who
>> depended on me for support and protection. Depending on the exact
>> situation, I might not want to risk their futures. Family
>> responsibility might take precedence over being a good Samaritan. I
>> wouldn't be happy about it, but there it is.
>>
>> Some people might call me brave or cowardly in one or both of those
>> situations, but I would reject those labels, and the romanticism behind
>> them. I would call it intelligent risk management.
>>
>> You DO live in the world I portray. I hope you never have that harsh
>> reality forcibly impressed on you. I care about and respect you. I
>> wouldn't like you to be hurt that way, or any other way.
>>
>> I wonder what Doc would have to say about all of this.
>>
>> I wonder what Stevie would say. I'll find out when I write it. Stories
>> up to #29 are written, where he meets Victoria, and I have the outlines
>> for a lot of others, and the ending. But then, Sir Arthur tried to kill
>> off Holmes, and Fleming tried to kill off Bond, but like a bad penny...
>>
>> A hint:
>> Sooner or later, Stevie will find out very dramatically he shouldn't be
>> telling all his secrets to his penpal Carlos. When that happens, will
>> he stop? Maybe. LOL
>>
>> I will post the next story, #15 "Kittens and Privacy" later today.
>
>
>Here is my comment on this discussion:
>
>There is room for both. There is need for both.
>
>We need Pragmatics to make things work.
>
>We need Romantics to remind us what to work for.
>
>Therefore, you both are part of the same truth.
>
>We need the discussion to help us see this.
>
>Mover, philosophicating
Dear Philosophicator Mover,
Eloquently said.
V
God Save the Queen.
God Bless the Prince of Wales.
God Preserve the Windsors.
Rule Britannia!
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