"Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote in message
news:bpbhon$irb$1@news.onet.pl...
>
> >
> > "Shez" <shez@oldcity.f2s.com> wrote in message
> > news:gdUkq6CJeQu$Ewx4@oldcity.f2s.com...
> > > In article <bp7sim$76r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>, Uncle Davey
> > > <noway@jose.com> writes
> > > >
> > > >news:MBDtb.8832$Kb3.374446@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > > >>
> > > >> "la n." <nilita2004@yahoo.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> > > >> news:tRAtb.71335$Ws6.47978@edtnps84...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:bp6fsc$7i$1@news.onet.pl...
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > As far as being manipulative is concerned, you occult workers
> > > >> wrote the
> > > >> > book
> > > >> > > on that particular skills set.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > That's how it seems to me, anyway.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Oh, that's a good point, Uncle.
> > > >> > Invoking spells to make someone love you and the ilk.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I remember my brief foray in that world lo many years
> > > >> > ago, I picked up a little technique on how to get unwelcome
> > > >> > guests to leave your home, if they've overstayed their
> > > >> > welcome.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > If I remember, one placed a broom upside down leaning
> > > >> > against a door to the outside.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I think a lot of people get into wicca and "magick"
> > > >> > feeling it will give them some sort of power over
> > > >> > (and to manipulate) others to their own desires.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > la n.
> > > >>
> > > >> You amuse me. So your spell worked did it? Why? So you believe
> > > >> that it does work. Interesting.
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't follow wicca, but I am sure that the wiccans are very
> > > >> glad to get rid of your sorry ass.
> > > >> Pip
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >When this is how you speak to people who are sympathetic to your
world
> > view,
> > > >I really start to believe that you are not out to make converts.
> > > >
> > > >Uncle Davey
> > > >
> > >
> > > Whoopee. Your getting it last, we don't want converts, those who come
to
> > > the pagan paths do so because they have been called, Not by a god, but
> > > by a need to find a personal spiritual path that they can follow,
> > > >
> > > Any religion which goes out to actively convert others ends up with a
> > > lot of people who are only in it for the social activities, the money
or
> > > because they like the idea of someone taking all responsibility for
> > > their lives, it saves them having to.
> > > Pagans are just the opposite, they take responsibility for themselves,
> > > and for what they do, they don't pretend its someone else's fault, or
> > > ask some god to forgive them,
> > > That takes a great deal of maturity, and the ability to not only take
> > > responsibility for what you do, but to put right what you have done
> > > wrong if you can, and if you cant to learn a lesson from it so you
don't
> > > make the same mistake again.
> > > How many Christians can claim that. They simply say God will forgive
me
> > > no matter how terrible the sins I have committed.
> > >
> > > How many murderers and child abusers, rapists, and criminals become
> > > Christians in prison, and then want to be released because god has
> > > forgiven them their sins so they are now good members of society, and
> > > how many Christians think that these criminals should be freed simply
> > > because they claim to have caught Christ, like it was a common cold.
> > >
> > > I don't see those Christians standing up and saying, that were glad
you
> > > have found your place with Christ, but the sins you committed can not
be
> > > forgiven by the society you live in , You have to pay the piper, or as
> > > your faith says, Give unto Caesar what is Ceasurs... and pay for the
> > > crimes that have been committed.
> > > If Christians spent less time trying to convert others, and more
> > > actually working within society to make it a more fair and honest
place
> > > for all of us, then perhaps more pagans would be less disgusted with
> > > your Christians.
> >
> > I for one have told some folks "looking into" paganism and Witchcraft
that
> > they'd be better off with Christianity. One in particular was Christian
> to
> > the core but wanted to be a Wiccan to fit in with her friends. Others
> were
> > nervous about how God would look upon their pagan dabblings. Even then,
> I'm
> > sure to insist it's only my opinion, and that it is the responsibility
of
> > the individual to discern the nature of the Divine (or lack thereof) as
it
> > relates to him/her.
> >
> > There are folks who just aren't suited for the paths of magick. Once
you
> > start the Work, you can't just abandon it. Even if you run back to
> > Christianity, it will follow you. I give this warning to everyone who
> comes
> > to me expecting to be "de-evangelized": If you can't run with the
> > dire-wolves, then stay in the fold with the sheep.
> >
> > Love & Laughter,
> > Nightshade
> >
> >
>
> Now we've heard it out of the horse's mouth, so to speak.
>
> (I'm not calling you a horse, I hasten to add)
>
> Thanks for the words of warning. They may help some of us not to waver.
If someone is happy in being Christian, acknowledges Jesus as their personal
savior, yet wants to be Wiccan just to please their friends, then why on
Earth should I encourage that person to abandon the faith they hold in their
heart? That's the difference between us and Christians -- you want and need
to force others to your path. We don't encourage such suffering and
self-denial.
Magick is not a game. It requires a great deal of work. If someone is
unwilling to do the work and take responsibility for cleaning up any messes
that may result, then they have no business meddling with magick. That's
another reason Witches don't try to convert people. The true seekers will
come to us, and stay, but they won't have it easy. To pretend otherwise is
to do a disservice to both the student and the Work.
Love & Laughter,
Nightshade
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