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From: "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: A riddle that was set me...
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:00:13 +0200
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Uzytkownik "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:scx4f.443065$_o.13630@attbi_s71...
> Uncle Davey wrote:
> > Uzytkownik "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.com> napisal w wiadomosci
> > news:0tc4f.249987$084.245527@attbi_s22...
> >
> >>Uncle Davey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>A participant on www.usenetposts.com/forum asked a
> >>
> >> > riddle, as follows:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>This is what just came to my mind which I would like
> >>
> >> >> to discuss with all of you:
> >>
> >>>>Is human will free? If it is not free, then people
> >>
> >> >> cannot be held responsible for their sins, as they
> >> >> don't have the capacity to abstain from sinning. But
> >> >> if human will is free, then God is not all-knowing and
> >> >> almighty, as people might choose to behave this way or
> >> >> that.
> >>
> >>>>Now, what is the solution to this?
> >>
> >>>And my reply was the following:
> >>>
> >>>First you would need to define "free".
> >>
> >>[snip]
> >>
> >>
> >>>There is freedom to make choices between possible alternatives.
> >>
> >>[snip]
> >>
> >>
> >>>That's how I would answer your riddle
> >>
> >>I see you didn't really trouble your answer with the conflict between
> >>our free will and God's omniscience.
> >>
> >>If God already knows what we're going to pick at any give choice, how
> >>are we free to choose any of the possible alternatives? Either:
> >>
> >>a) We can choose any of the alternatives, including those different than
> >>what God *knows* we're going to pick -- thus invalidating his
omniscience.
> >>
> >>b) We can only choose the alternative that God has forseen for use, thus
> >>making free well an illusion.
> >>
> >>I've outlined this conundrum a dozen or so times to theists who hold
> >>that God is omniscient, yet we have free will. So far, I have only
> >>received complimentary dance lessons.
> >
> >
> > As I say, the answer is in Christ.
> >
> > We do not have a freedom not to commit sin. That choice was made for us.
> >
> > The choice that we have is whether or not to believe in the saviour.
> >
> > With regard to repentance and faith, it is true that God does determine
> > those to whom he gives truth. Even Jacob when repenting before meeting
Esau
> > in Genesis 32 says to God that he doesn't deserve all the truth he
knows.
> > Then shortly after this the risen Christ comes and wrestles with him,
and
> > gives him the name of Israel. That name, which remains on everyone's
lips to
> > this day, came to a man soon after his acknowledgement that he didn't
> > deserve any truth from God, and had been given it out of mercy.
> >
> > This is the beginning of wisdom. To understand that God does give as He
> > pleases, truth as well as any other gift. That is why we are not free,
in a
> > sense, to chose His truth and believe it for our salvation, he needs to
give
> > it. But at the same time you can do as Israel did and bind God to a
> > struggle, saying to even the most high God "I will not let thee go,
except
> > thou bless me". Wonder of wonders! Of course the creator and redeemer
Christ
> > could have had power to wrestle with Jacob in such a way as to crush his
> > every atom at the subquantum level, or to fling him into interplanetary
> > disintegration, but he allows jacob to win a blessing! So in the same
way we
> > can come, and lay claim on blessings from God. Only later we know, that
we
> > could never have come without his grace, but you are free to go to God
and
> > claim the promises, that those who come to Him He will not cast out.
That
> > those who pray "o Lord, help me to believe" receive their faith. You can
> > choose to believe in God.
> >
> > And if you believe on Christ for your salvation, then it will be as an
act
> > of will on your level whatever it may be looked at from another level.
> >
> > I hope this is an answer for you. If not, I will try again.
>
> It is an answer, but not to the conundrum originally posed.
>
> Perhaps it will help to detach the question from God -- think of some
> omniscient barber in the place of Him, as an omniscient being, coupled
> with our theoretical free will is enough to produce the logical conflict.
But God is not some figurative Figaro figure. Go figga.
Uncle Davey
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