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Subject: Re: Hello Wiccans
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Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 03:47:11 GMT
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Uncle Davey wrote:
> news:bo18n3$16fo1v$1@ID-140581.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>"Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> trolled:
>>
>>>"t_naismith" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>><cross-post from "free.christians" NG - a misnomer or plea for
>>>
>>>assistance?>
>>>
>>>>Here's a better deal, Jaz; if you can admit to the rampant cultural
>>>>thieveries of xtianity from prior cultures which took place over
>>>>thousands of years, (cf. history), and do everything you can to
>>>>try to redress that issue, I personally will take your request under
>>>>advisement. Until then, kill-file me or bugger off.
>>>
>>>Could you be a little more specific about what you believe we have taken
>>>from other cultures?
>>>
>>
>>What, you don't know your own religion's history? The laundry list of
>>examples would be considerably shorter were it to include that which
>>was _not_ borrowed/swiped/nicked/plagiarized/co-opted from cultures
>>which predated it. So, that's your mission, missionary; find some tenet
>>that was not stolen by xtianity ... there has to be at least one, nyet?
>>
>>T.N.
>>
>
>
> I can tell you this, that it was the Christian church that gave literacy to
> many many languages, and then the secular used what we gave for their own
> purposes.
>
It was the church that wrote over books written by non Christians to
copy religious texts. Literature existed before the Christian church.
Much of it was destroyed by the Christian church as well as wars and
natural disaster. Publishing non Christian texts, or texts that
disagreed with the Christian church were severely limited, sometimes
banned, and the authors sometimes persecuted and executed.
> It was the Christian church that built many fine buildings used today for
> exclusively pagan purposes.
>
Such as?
> It was Christian thought that developed the legal systems that underly
> modern democracies and free market countries.
>
The first codefied laws pre-date Christianity. As do many legal
systems. When you say 'Christian thought' instead of 'Christian church'
you are claiming credit for the church for ideas that may have been
developed in spite of the church, even by those who opposed much that
the church supported.
> It was the Reformation that gave rise to the Industrial Revolution
>
It was the Dark Ages that almost caused us to decay.
> It was Christians who were the leading scientists through the main centuries
> of progress.
>
Again you are claiming for the church the work of individuals. Some
were helped by the church, some were not. The church helped create a
restrictive society where only the heavily taxing authorities could
afford artists and scientists effectively forcing people to choose
between serving a lord or the church. It wasn't much of a choice.
> It was for, admittedly mislead, Christian purposes that the basis of modern
> art, literature and music in all European and American culture was founded,
> and then hijacked by unbelievers.
>
Some would say that the basis predates the Christian church. What
Christian purposes are you talking about? And what was hijacked? By
unbelievers do you mean those who do not follow a belief or those who
don't follow your belief?
> In short, we don't need to have any complexes at all about the balance sheet
> of our culture.
>
> Uncle Davey
>
I don't want to give you a complex. I would hope you would acknowledge
that the Christian church didn't drop into a hunter-gatherer society
with no language, no wheel, no agriculture, no religion, no culture, and
suddenly create Western Culture.
Zsarnok
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