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From: "Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: How do homosexuals feel about Christian attitude towards them?
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:50:52 +0100
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Uzytkownik "Clay Colwell" <eris@io.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:f415da82.0310270547.1351846f@posting.google.com...
> "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
news:<bndoub$hi4$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>...
> > Uzytkownik "Clay Colwell" <eris@io.com> napisal w wiadomosci
> > news:f415da82.0310240734.63b99364@posting.google.com...
> > > HitherandYon@msn.com (The Nice Mean Man) wrote in message
> > news:<19f5d6de.0310231831.4a2ff000@posting.google.com>...
> > > > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> > news:<bn8v5l$9to$3@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>...
> > [...]
> > > > > You can talk about the other sins as much as you like, and all the
> > sins are
> > > > > wrong, but don't try to put homosexuality outside of the list of
sins.
> > There
> > > > > were a bunch of sins in Sodom, in was a continual orgy of sin, and
> > each of
> > > > > the sins needs to be repented of. You repent of your homosexual
sins,
> > I'll
> > > > > repent of my heterosexual ones, we can both repent of our pride
and
> > greed
> > > > > and put them aside we can all have salvation because of the blood
of
> > Jesus
> > > > > Christ.
> > > > >
> > > > > Uncle Davey
> > > >
> > > > "He made them Male & Female"
> > > > {note that while speaking on the family, Jesus acknowledges the
> > > > Father's will for make-up of said family... "Male & Female He made
> > > > them"}.
> > >
> > > Genesis 1:26 -- "Then God said, 'Let us make humankind* in our image,
> > > according to our likeness;"
> > >
> > > So God's a hermaphrodite? Intriguing. Or perhaps Jesus was a drag
> > > king.
> > >
> >
> > I don't think that we can really think of God in those terms at all,
>
> I would think not, but the concept is such fun to play with. By the
> way, is God using the royal We, and is It just exhibiting MPD?
One of the indications that the Godhead is a trinity is the use of plural
and singular roots together in relating to Him.
For example, the word God, 'elohim' is both a singular root and a plural
ending at once.
I had an interesting conversation today with a moslem about the footsteps of
God after the fall in the garden of Eden.
It conjures up, he said, the picture of a giant walking in a garden, unable
to find Adam. I said it was the pre-incarnate Christ walking in the garden,
asking as Christ did on the earth a question (in this case 'where art thou,
Adam?') to which he already knew the answer.
In other words Christ, in whose eternally predetermined physical image man
is made, is already visible soon after the fall, although he would not be
born a physical baby for another several thousand years. But, as He said
Himself, "before Abraham was, I am".
> > but
> > when Christ was on earth he was born a man. Males contain the female but
not
> > the other way round.
>
> Any expectant mother about to give birth to a boy would *love* to
> take exception to that assertion. ;-)
>
In that case she does contain the male, but not on a cellular level,
although she did pass to him her mitochondria, wherein is the breath of
life, and in so doing, reinforced her name of Eve to another generation.
>
> > Because male genes have the x and the y chromosome. The
> > female carries the life forward, as Eve means 'life' because the female
cell
> > has the mitochondria. Every man alive has his father's Y chromosome and
his
> > mother's mitochondria.
>
> So if Eve was made from Adam's rib, why did she not have Y chromosomes
> in her genetic makeup? (This I ask because, presumably, she was
female...)
>
X and Y chromosomes are found only in the gamete.
>
> > > > "And for this cause shall a Man leave his Father and Mother"
> > > > {note that He differentiates the sexes. 'Father' & 'Mother'. Not
'his
> > > > two fathers' or 'his two mothers'....
> > >
> > > So a woman raped and forsaken by the rapist bears a son. By your
> > > words, he'll never be a Man. Good to know.
> >
> > Interestingly on that point at the time of the Maccabees the jewish
women
> > were raped by males of marauding tribes so often that at that point it
was
> > decided that Jewishness was carried by the mother's line, not the
father's,
> > so that these fatherless children could be included in Judaism.
>
> Interesting, if a bit icky. I hadn't known that. (Well, I knew about
> maternal lines, but not the reasoning behind them.)
>
It is pretty interesting, and of course the strange thing is that Biblical
geneology always refers along what the Polish language calls 'the line of
the sword', ie. father to son, but in the New Testament there are two
apparently conflicting geneologies of Christ, and this is precisely because
one refers to the traditional fathers' line and the other to Mary's line.
>
> > In the Old
> > Testament we do not see this, as it is always by male descent, as with
> > celticness, by which reason I can call myself a celt even though I have
only
> > one quarter celtic blood. However, it was necessary for Jewishness to be
via
> > the mother by the time our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was born, so
that
> > even without being the genetic son of Joseph, he was a Jew.
>
> Which leads to an ickier conclusion that God set up Jewish women to
> be the victims of repeated rape in order to set up such maternal lines.
> You'll have to pardon me if I find that repulsive.
If you want to look at things that way you will find a lot of things have
gone haywire on the way to making things come right in the end.
Suffice it to say that the blessings of eternity more than compensate for
the trials of this earthly life.
Don't look for utopia this side of the next life, the Bible certainly
doesn't promise it.
> > That is why I do
> > believe it was of God's will to have the tribal identity of the child
linked
> > to the mother. These days it is usual in most countries for an unmarried
> > mother who has a child to receive for that child the nationality of
herself,
> > but for a married mother the nationality of the father is available,
even if
> > he didn't father the child.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > ..."And cleave to his Wife"...
> > > > {Wife: As in Female. As in penis into vagina. Get the picture?
> > >
> > > Yeah -- you heterosexuals are sure hung up on sex. It's like you
> > > view marriage solely as a sex license. You should get help for that
> > > attitude.
> > >
> >
> > He's just trolling both sides, mine and yours, bless him.
>
> My S'uth'n streak echoes that sentiment: bless his l'il ol' shriveled
> heart.
>
It says 'bless them that curse you, and pray for them that despitefully use
you'.
>
> > But I would say that marriage based only on sex and not on friendship
also
> > is a sad thing.
>
> I won't disagree with that.
>
Ok.
>
> > > > I hope so. You're HERE because of this divine concept}
> > >
> > > So artificial insemination is what, to you, exactly......?
> > >
> >
> > To me? A good way to prevent giant pandas dying out or stop bulls
weighing
> > half a tonne needing to be transported around the coutryside when a
couple
> > of syringes will do.
> >
> > Not an ideal option for people though, one with various ethical dilemmas
> > attaching to it.
>
> Perhaps not an ideal option, but certainly a viable one.
>
I'm sure Hitler thought so, as he planned the Lebensborn project.
>
> > > > ..."And the two shall become one flesh, no longer two but one flesh"
> > > > {as we see here, marriage is not just the joining of the bodies...
> > > > it is also the joining of the sexes. Something homosexuals can never
> > > > hope to do}.
> > >
> > > Uhhh, homosexuals have always been able to engage in heterosexual
> > > intercourse; it's just that such is not what floats our boats.
> > >
> > > But what intrigues me more is the concept that Man is drawn to Woman,
> > > apparently not out of love or other high-minded concept, but because
> > > he wants his rib back. Unless you see this as simply a metaphor,
which
> > > kinda renders this story as, well, solely a story, and hardly an
> > > "infallible" account of what occurred in reality.
> > >
> > >
> > > > As anyone can plainly see, you're mind is quite warped by your own
> > > > sin, my befuddled friend.
> > >
> > > Um, Uncle Davey is an alleged *hetero*sexual and self-professed
> > > Christian, dude.
> >
> > I've got five kids.
> >
> > I'm not just an alleged heterosexual, I've got the scars to prove it!
>
> So children are naught but a burden, eh?
I love my kids, but that doesn't mean it's easy to be a Dad.
In a way, it'd be easier if you didn't love 'em.
> Just kidding. I used "alleged" because I really know next-to-nothing
> about you, and I like the symmetry between "alleged heterosexual"
> and "practicing homosexual" -- both have about the same lack of panache.
>
That reminds me about the guy who was carrying a violin and asked a passer
by how to get to the Carnegie Hall.
"You gotta practice. Practice all you can."
>
> > You might want to focus your attention.
> > > Continuing, Mr. Roberts, who provided the essay, is *also* hetero-
> > > sexual.
> > >
> > > > Too much injested semen, I fear.
> > >
> > > Oh, the irony. Which one is befuddled by "too much injested[sic]
> > > semen": Uncle Davey, Mr. Roberts, or any married female who gives
> > > her husband blowjobs?
> > >
> > > And, given the title of the thread, this demonstrated "Christian
> > > attitude" is simply priceless.
> >
> > That was a troll poste and not a Christian approach.
> >
> > It was calculated to cause equal upset to both sides of this argument.
> >
> > That's no doubt his idea of fun, and I dare say there are worse ideas.
>
> And better, as well. I shall endeavor to keep both in mind with any
> responses I make to him.
OK.
Uncle Davey
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