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From: Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: "THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH"
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:31:42 +0100, "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com>
wrote:
>
><thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>> Bible Bob wrote:
>> > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:34:45 +0100, "Ariaan"
>> > <thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bible Bob wrote:
>> >>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:02:38 +0100, "Ariaan"
>> >>>
><thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Bible Bob wrote:
>> >>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:06:10 +0100, "Ariaan"
>> >>>>>
>> <thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Piorokrat wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>> >>>>>>> wiadomosci news:sj0o10hsgmihvve80u8tos3uhl86eep47m@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:12:41 +0100, "Piorokrat"
>> >>>>>>>> <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>> >>>>>>>>> wiadomosci news:hfsn109a401gqvc5f7cb1v777nhp8jpumm@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:07:45 +0100, "Piorokrat"
>> >>>>>>>>>> <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>> >>>>>>>>>>> wiadomosci
>> >>>>>>>>>>> news:ulqn10l9t1ih71q0c2gb8us2gj35u0kupr@4ax.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:10:50 +0100, "Uncle Davey"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "C Spivey" <cspivey@premiercomp.net> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:bv9acb$ndn$1@news.chatlink.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two Thousand Years ago a certain Man, innocent of all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrongdoing, was taken into custody by the authorities,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> given a trial in which He was charged of crimes He had
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not committed, and even when "no fault" could be
>> >>>>>>> found
>> >>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Him,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was condemned to the cruelest death that man could
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> invent.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it should not be supposed that simply because these
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two Thousand Years have passed that this terrible
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> miscarriage of justice will not be avenged in the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Highest Court! Nor should it be supposed that everyone
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>> >>>>>>> has
>> >>>>>>>>> had
>> >>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> part in this travesty will escape the judgment of this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Court!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You may think you know nothing, at all, about this event.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you are still guilty of His blood, and it behooves
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, now, to cry unto Him, "the Judge of all the earth",
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for mercy and grace, in, what cannot be otherwise, your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impending and eternal doom!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> His name is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour, who, in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the great
>> >>>>>>> est
>> >>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> love
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and grace, paid our debt of sin, Himself, on the Cross of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calvary.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though He was crucified at the hands of wicked men, Jews
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Gentiles are guilty of His death. But more, it was
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your sins, your life style, that nailed Him to the Cross,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you are not innocent in this matter, but guilty as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged. Yet because He not only was innocent of all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrongdoing, but righteous in all that He did, the grave
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> could not hold Him. Death had no claim upon Him.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, by His own Almighty power He arose from the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dead; and alive forever more, He is seeking for
>> >>>>>>> all
>> >>>>>>>>>>> those
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a part in His crucifixion.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it seems to me that the wisest thing that any man
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> could do under such circumstances is to plead for mercy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from this Court of Justice. Because this Man, whom you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have crucified (your sins also nailed Him to the cross),
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is alive, and He is coming again to take vengeance upon
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all mankind.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ is The Judge of All the Earth!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I. for one, am certainly responsible for Christ's death on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> cross.
>> >>>>>>>>> For
>> >>>>>>>>>>> my
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sins, He died, to take the punishment for them. The same
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> punishment cannot be demanded twice, and so my Judge has
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> become my Saviour!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.usenetposts.com
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Your picture does not reveal your age :).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting. As an eyewitness of the conviction and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> murder of Jesus Christ by the Jews and Romans, you must
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> obviously have been able to speak and understand Hebew,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Aramaic, Greek, and Latin spoke by the rest of the people
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> there; or maybe just Hebrew.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible does not tell us everything that happened, so why
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> don't you fill me in on what you personally witnessed two
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thousand years ago when you took part in the execution of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> BB
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> You're writing like someone who doesn't believe in
>> >>>>>>>>>>> predestination.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I know what election and predestination is and what it is
>> >>>>>>>>>> not. I also know about our identification in Christ,
>> >>>>>>>>>> substitution, etc.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I know of know scripture that says that Christians living
>> >>>>>>>>>> today are responsible for the behavior of non-christians
>> >>>>>>>>>> 2000 years ago.
>> >>>>>>>>>> God is a just God and judges individuals based on individual
>> >>>>>>>>>> behavior.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> BB
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Saying that Christ died for you is tantamount to saying that
>> >>>>>>>>> you put him there.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Otherwise, how do you parse the verse about people crucifying
>> >>>>>>>>> to themselves the Son of God afresh?
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> If Christ had not meant to die for us, then He could have
>> >>>>>>>>> escaped, as He did those other times, before His time was
>> >>>>>>>>> ready.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Because it is talking about crucifying to "themselves".
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Christ meant to die for our sins, but only for those we commit.
>> >>>>>>>> But since you brought it up, what evidence do you have from the
>> >>>>>>>> scriptures that Christ knew that he would be crucified for the
>> >>>>>>>> body of Christ? We know that he knew he was being crucified for
>> >>>>>>>> the Jews of that time. We know that he was able to endure the
>> >>>>>>>> cross for the glory set before him. But, the mystery was not
>> >>>>>>>> revealed until it was made known to the apostle Paul, so had
>> >>>>>>>> God revealed that part of the plan to Him before the
>> >>>>>>>> crucifixion or wait until after the crucifixion to reveal it
>> >>>>>>>> to him?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> BB
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> One massive piece of evidence is that he prays for future
>> >>>>>>> believers in John 17, "neither pray I for these alone..." and
>> >>>>>>> there are all the the prophetical passages about the end.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Now here we see how your belief that Christ is not God Almighty
>> >>>>>>> interferes with your understanding of what Christ knew. Clearly
>> >>>>>>> he knew what would be h ereafter, and the name of all that
>> >>>>>>> would come to him. He never lost that knowledge, even being a
>> >>>>>>> tiny baby lying in a manger. He never stopped being God and in
>> >>>>>>> Him dwelt all the fullness of the godhead bodily. So therefore
>> >>>>>>> of course He new whatever God the Father knew before Paul knew
>> >>>>>>> it. 'Never revealed before' does not include Jesus, and that is
>> >>>>>>> clear to all but the tiny majority of Bible believers who have
>> >>>>>>> managed to escape the fact that Jesus is the LORD.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> That's right, Uncle. Read Zachariah 2:8-11
>> >>>>>> "For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He has
>> >>>>>> sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches
>> >>>>>> you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave My
>> >>>>>> hand over them, so that they will be plunder for their slaves.
>> >>>>>> Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent Me. Sing for
>> >>>>>> joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and
>> >>>>>> will dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'And many nations
>> >>>>>> will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My
>> >>>>>> people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that
>> >>>>>> the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.'"
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> LORD of hosts sends LORD of hosts, here.
>> >>>>>> God sends God
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> That makes Ariaan happy!
>> >>>>>> Yaaahooooo!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> Ariaan,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Surely, you haven't read my earlier post about Zech, otherwise you
>> >>>>> would not have repeated the modification of the text by
>> >>>>> capitalizing "me".
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Why would someone being wrong make you happy? Why do you need
>> >>>>> someone to agree with you to establish your faith? Are you
>> >>>>> getting desperate? Are you a drowning man reaching out for
>> >>>>> anything that passes by to hold you up? Careful, whale
>> >>>>> excrement, might float for a little while but will surely sink.
>> >>>>> When you are drowning in an ocean of doubt, fear, and
>> >>>>> desperation, calm down inhale some pneuma and float to shore.
>> >>>>> Backfloat so you can pass the time reading the Word on your way
>> >>>>> to shore or so that if you don't have a Bible you can look up
>> >>>>> into the stars and read the Word He wrote in the stars.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Bob
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Heh heh heh, no, I'm not drowning at all. I'm just celebrating my
>> >>>> knowledge of Christ's deity.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Oh, and I don't think I've seen you refute my interpretation of
>> >>>> this text. All I saw was a weak argument that this should be some
>> >>>> sort of figurative text. You didn't even address the fact that it
>> >>>> says the LORD is being sent by the LORD.
>> >
>> > It does not say "the LORD is being sent by the LORD" does it? Those
>> > are your words, not words contained in the verse.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ariaan
>> >>>>
>> >>> So you missed the part where I admonished you for capitalizing the
>> >>> word "me". And now you change the actual words in the Word to
>> >>> support your belief system. Wonder where that inspiration came
>> >>> from? Quote for me the words from which you wrongly divided "the
>> >>> LORD is being sent by the LORD" that do not appear in the text.
>> >>> Then read the verses in context and tell me who "me" is in "he sent
>> >>> me" in verse nine (Hint try reading in the contextd starting at
>> >>> 2:1).
>> >>
>> >> Zechariah 2: 8-11: "For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He
>> >> has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who
>> >> touches you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave
>> >> My hand over them, so that they will be plunder for their slaves.
>> >> Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent Me. Sing for joy
>> >> and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and will
>> >> dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'And many nations will join
>> >> themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I
>> >> will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts
>> >> has sent Me to you.'"
>> >
>> > Why did you capitalize "me"? "me" is not God. Read the context
>> > starting at verse 2:1.
>> >>
>> >> Here God (the LORD of hosts) says that God (the One who has a people
>> >> that are the apple of His eye) has sent Him.
>> >
>> > It does not say "Him", you are changing teh Word. It says sent "me"
>> > and "me" is not Him and "me" is not "Me" and "me" is not God and "me"
>> > is the speaker from verse 2:1.
>> >
>> >> God (the LORD of hosts) says that He will wave His hand over them,
>> >> so that they will know that God (the LORD of hosts) has sent Him.
>> >
>> > Doesn't say "Him"
>> >
>> >> God (the LORD of hosts) says He will come and everyone will know
>> >> that God (the LORD of hosts) has sent Him
>> >
>> > Doesn't say "Him"
>> >>
>> >> So the LORD of hosts is being sent by the LORD of hosts
>> >> Hmmm, seems pretty clear to me.
>> >
>> > Clear to you because that is what you want to see, but that is not
>> > what it says is it?
>> >>
>> >> And here is your context, taken from the King James:
>> >
>> > You forgot verses 1-5.
>> >
>> >> 6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith
>> >> the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the
>> >> heaven, saith the LORD.
>> >> 7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of
>> >> Babylon. 8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath
>> >> he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth
>> >> you toucheth the apple of his eye.
>> >> 9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be
>> >> a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts
>> >> hath sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I
>> >> come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
>> >> 11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and
>> >> shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou
>> >> shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
>> >> 12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land,
>> >> and shall choose Jerusalem again.
>> >> 13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out
>> >> of his holy habitation.
>> >> 1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
>> >> angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist
>> >> him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan;
>> >> even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a
>> >> brand plucked out of the fire?
>> >>
>> >> Clearly the LORD of host is sending the LORD of hosts.
>> >> There are two (2) LORDs of hosts here.
>> >
>> > Who is "I" in Zec 2:2 and "me" in 3:1 amd "me" in verse 9?
>> >>
>> >> >snip<
>> >> Ariaan
>> >>> Ariaan, while it is fun for us to banter back and forth. It is not
>> >>> profitable to you, to me, to the body, to the Lord Jesus Christ, or
>> >>> to God to wrongly divide the Word to prove a point of ego. How do
>> >>> you expect God to teach you if your bucket is full? The word
>> >>> "meek" means willing to learn. God teaches the Word to those who
>> >>> are "meek".
>> >>>
>> >>> BB
>> >>
>> >> Wrongly dividing the Word is not fun either. So I feel I have to
>> >> keep this up.
>> >>
>> >> Ariaan
>> >>
>> >>
>> > The "me" in verse nine is Zechariah speaking of his visions. Verses
>> > have to be read in context..
>> >
>> > BB
>>
>> The LORD of hosts says it about Himself. "For thus says the LORD of
>> hosts, 'After glory He has sent me (....) I will wave My hand over them
>...
>> then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me ... behold, I am
>> coming ... declares the LORD ... and many nations .... will become My
>people
>> ... Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of
>> hosts has sent Me to you."
>>
>> ariaan
>> (see the other one)
>>
>>
>
>Bob, this is yet another wriggle out of the clear meaning that is in front
>of you.
>
>Bob, Bob. Why are you persecuting the Divine Christ? Is it not hard for you
>to kick against the prickings of your conscience?
>
>Uncle Davey
>
Nice, try but no prize.
Read Zech 3:1. Begins with "And" setting it in correspondence with
last verse of chapter 2. Me is the prophet.
BB
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