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From: Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: "THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH"
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:19:03 +0100, "Ariaan"
<thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Bible Bob wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:34:45 +0100, "Ariaan"
>> <thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bible Bob wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:02:38 +0100, "Ariaan"
>>>> <thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bible Bob wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:06:10 +0100, "Ariaan"
>>>>>>
><thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Piorokrat wrote:
>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>>>>>>>> wiadomosci news:sj0o10hsgmihvve80u8tos3uhl86eep47m@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:12:41 +0100, "Piorokrat"
>>>>>>>>> <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>>>>>>>>>> wiadomosci news:hfsn109a401gqvc5f7cb1v777nhp8jpumm@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:07:45 +0100, "Piorokrat"
>>>>>>>>>>> <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>>>>>>>>>>>> wiadomosci
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ulqn10l9t1ih71q0c2gb8us2gj35u0kupr@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:10:50 +0100, "Uncle Davey"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "C Spivey" <cspivey@premiercomp.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:bv9acb$ndn$1@news.chatlink.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two Thousand Years ago a certain Man, innocent of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrongdoing, was taken into custody by the authorities,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given a trial in which He was charged of crimes He had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not committed, and even when "no fault" could be
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Him,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was condemned to the cruelest death that man could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it should not be supposed that simply because these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two Thousand Years have passed that this terrible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> miscarriage of justice will not be avenged in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Highest Court! Nor should it be supposed that everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part in this travesty will escape the judgment of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Court!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You may think you know nothing, at all, about this event.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you are still guilty of His blood, and it behooves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, now, to cry unto Him, "the Judge of all the earth",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for mercy and grace, in, what cannot be otherwise, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impending and eternal doom!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His name is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour, who, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the great
>>>>>>>> est
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and grace, paid our debt of sin, Himself, on the Cross of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calvary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though He was crucified at the hands of wicked men, Jews
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Gentiles are guilty of His death. But more, it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your sins, your life style, that nailed Him to the Cross,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you are not innocent in this matter, but guilty as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged. Yet because He not only was innocent of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrongdoing, but righteous in all that He did, the grave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could not hold Him. Death had no claim upon Him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, by His own Almighty power He arose from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dead; and alive forever more, He is seeking for
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a part in His crucifixion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it seems to me that the wisest thing that any man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could do under such circumstances is to plead for mercy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from this Court of Justice. Because this Man, whom you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have crucified (your sins also nailed Him to the cross),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is alive, and He is coming again to take vengeance upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all mankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ is The Judge of All the Earth!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I. for one, am certainly responsible for Christ's death on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> cross.
>>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins, He died, to take the punishment for them. The same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> punishment cannot be demanded twice, and so my Judge has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become my Saviour!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.usenetposts.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your picture does not reveal your age :).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting. As an eyewitness of the conviction and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder of Jesus Christ by the Jews and Romans, you must
>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously have been able to speak and understand Hebew,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aramaic, Greek, and Latin spoke by the rest of the people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there; or maybe just Hebrew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible does not tell us everything that happened, so why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't you fill me in on what you personally witnessed two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thousand years ago when you took part in the execution of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You're writing like someone who doesn't believe in
>>>>>>>>>>>> predestination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know what election and predestination is and what it is
>>>>>>>>>>> not. I also know about our identification in Christ,
>>>>>>>>>>> substitution, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know of know scripture that says that Christians living
>>>>>>>>>>> today are responsible for the behavior of non-christians
>>>>>>>>>>> 2000 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>>> God is a just God and judges individuals based on individual
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Saying that Christ died for you is tantamount to saying that
>>>>>>>>>> you put him there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise, how do you parse the verse about people crucifying
>>>>>>>>>> to themselves the Son of God afresh?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If Christ had not meant to die for us, then He could have
>>>>>>>>>> escaped, as He did those other times, before His time was
>>>>>>>>>> ready.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because it is talking about crucifying to "themselves".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Christ meant to die for our sins, but only for those we commit.
>>>>>>>>> But since you brought it up, what evidence do you have from the
>>>>>>>>> scriptures that Christ knew that he would be crucified for the
>>>>>>>>> body of Christ? We know that he knew he was being crucified for
>>>>>>>>> the Jews of that time. We know that he was able to endure the
>>>>>>>>> cross for the glory set before him. But, the mystery was not
>>>>>>>>> revealed until it was made known to the apostle Paul, so had
>>>>>>>>> God revealed that part of the plan to Him before the
>>>>>>>>> crucifixion or wait until after the crucifixion to reveal it
>>>>>>>>> to him?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One massive piece of evidence is that he prays for future
>>>>>>>> believers in John 17, "neither pray I for these alone..." and
>>>>>>>> there are all the the prophetical passages about the end.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now here we see how your belief that Christ is not God Almighty
>>>>>>>> interferes with your understanding of what Christ knew. Clearly
>>>>>>>> he knew what would be h ereafter, and the name of all that
>>>>>>>> would come to him. He never lost that knowledge, even being a
>>>>>>>> tiny baby lying in a manger. He never stopped being God and in
>>>>>>>> Him dwelt all the fullness of the godhead bodily. So therefore
>>>>>>>> of course He new whatever God the Father knew before Paul knew
>>>>>>>> it. 'Never revealed before' does not include Jesus, and that is
>>>>>>>> clear to all but the tiny majority of Bible believers who have
>>>>>>>> managed to escape the fact that Jesus is the LORD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's right, Uncle. Read Zachariah 2:8-11
>>>>>>> "For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He has
>>>>>>> sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches
>>>>>>> you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave My
>>>>>>> hand over them, so that they will be plunder for their slaves.
>>>>>>> Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent Me. Sing for
>>>>>>> joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and
>>>>>>> will dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'And many nations
>>>>>>> will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My
>>>>>>> people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that
>>>>>>> the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.'"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LORD of hosts sends LORD of hosts, here.
>>>>>>> God sends God
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That makes Ariaan happy!
>>>>>>> Yaaahooooo!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ariaan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely, you haven't read my earlier post about Zech, otherwise you
>>>>>> would not have repeated the modification of the text by
>>>>>> capitalizing "me".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would someone being wrong make you happy? Why do you need
>>>>>> someone to agree with you to establish your faith? Are you
>>>>>> getting desperate? Are you a drowning man reaching out for
>>>>>> anything that passes by to hold you up? Careful, whale
>>>>>> excrement, might float for a little while but will surely sink.
>>>>>> When you are drowning in an ocean of doubt, fear, and
>>>>>> desperation, calm down inhale some pneuma and float to shore.
>>>>>> Backfloat so you can pass the time reading the Word on your way
>>>>>> to shore or so that if you don't have a Bible you can look up
>>>>>> into the stars and read the Word He wrote in the stars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> Heh heh heh, no, I'm not drowning at all. I'm just celebrating my
>>>>> knowledge of Christ's deity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and I don't think I've seen you refute my interpretation of
>>>>> this text. All I saw was a weak argument that this should be some
>>>>> sort of figurative text. You didn't even address the fact that it
>>>>> says the LORD is being sent by the LORD.
>>
>> It does not say "the LORD is being sent by the LORD" does it? Those
>> are your words, not words contained in the verse.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ariaan
>>>>>
>>>> So you missed the part where I admonished you for capitalizing the
>>>> word "me". And now you change the actual words in the Word to
>>>> support your belief system. Wonder where that inspiration came
>>>> from? Quote for me the words from which you wrongly divided "the
>>>> LORD is being sent by the LORD" that do not appear in the text.
>>>> Then read the verses in context and tell me who "me" is in "he sent
>>>> me" in verse nine (Hint try reading in the contextd starting at
>>>> 2:1).
>>>
>>> Zechariah 2: 8-11: "For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He
>>> has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who
>>> touches you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave
>>> My hand over them, so that they will be plunder for their slaves.
>>> Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent Me. Sing for joy
>>> and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and will
>>> dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'And many nations will join
>>> themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I
>>> will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts
>>> has sent Me to you.'"
>>
>> Why did you capitalize "me"? "me" is not God. Read the context
>> starting at verse 2:1.
>>>
>>> Here God (the LORD of hosts) says that God (the One who has a people
>>> that are the apple of His eye) has sent Him.
>>
>> It does not say "Him", you are changing teh Word. It says sent "me"
>> and "me" is not Him and "me" is not "Me" and "me" is not God and "me"
>> is the speaker from verse 2:1.
>>
>>> God (the LORD of hosts) says that He will wave His hand over them,
>>> so that they will know that God (the LORD of hosts) has sent Him.
>>
>> Doesn't say "Him"
>>
>>> God (the LORD of hosts) says He will come and everyone will know
>>> that God (the LORD of hosts) has sent Him
>>
>> Doesn't say "Him"
>>>
>>> So the LORD of hosts is being sent by the LORD of hosts
>>> Hmmm, seems pretty clear to me.
>>
>> Clear to you because that is what you want to see, but that is not
>> what it says is it?
>>>
>>> And here is your context, taken from the King James:
>>
>> You forgot verses 1-5.
>>
>>> 6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith
>>> the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the
>>> heaven, saith the LORD.
>>> 7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of
>>> Babylon. 8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath
>>> he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth
>>> you toucheth the apple of his eye.
>>> 9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be
>>> a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts
>>> hath sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I
>>> come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
>>> 11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and
>>> shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou
>>> shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
>>> 12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land,
>>> and shall choose Jerusalem again.
>>> 13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out
>>> of his holy habitation.
>>> 1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
>>> angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist
>>> him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan;
>>> even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a
>>> brand plucked out of the fire?
>>>
>>> Clearly the LORD of host is sending the LORD of hosts.
>>> There are two (2) LORDs of hosts here.
>>
>> Who is "I" in Zec 2:2 and "me" in 3:1 amd "me" in verse 9?
>>>
>>> >snip<
>>> Ariaan
>>>> Ariaan, while it is fun for us to banter back and forth. It is not
>>>> profitable to you, to me, to the body, to the Lord Jesus Christ, or
>>>> to God to wrongly divide the Word to prove a point of ego. How do
>>>> you expect God to teach you if your bucket is full? The word
>>>> "meek" means willing to learn. God teaches the Word to those who
>>>> are "meek".
>>>>
>>>> BB
>>>
>>> Wrongly dividing the Word is not fun either. So I feel I have to
>>> keep this up.
>>>
>>> Ariaan
>>>
>>>
>> The "me" in verse nine is Zechariah speaking of his visions. Verses
>> have to be read in context..
>>
>> BB
>
>The LORD of hosts says it about Himself. "For thus says the LORD of
>hosts, 'After glory He has sent me (....) I will wave My hand over them ...
>then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me ... behold, I am
>coming ... declares the LORD ... and many nations .... will become My people
>... Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of
>hosts has sent Me to you."
>
>ariaan
>(see the other one)
>
I saw it. My answer is there.
BB
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