Bible Bob wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:34:45 +0100, "Ariaan"
> <thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bible Bob wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:02:38 +0100, "Ariaan"
>>> <thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bible Bob wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:06:10 +0100, "Ariaan"
>>>>>
<thisisagenuineaddresssopleaseomittheobvioustoreplyNOOOSPAM@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Piorokrat wrote:
>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>>>>>>> wiadomosci news:sj0o10hsgmihvve80u8tos3uhl86eep47m@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:12:41 +0100, "Piorokrat"
>>>>>>>> <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>>>>>>>>> wiadomosci news:hfsn109a401gqvc5f7cb1v777nhp8jpumm@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:07:45 +0100, "Piorokrat"
>>>>>>>>>> <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w
>>>>>>>>>>> wiadomosci
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ulqn10l9t1ih71q0c2gb8us2gj35u0kupr@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:10:50 +0100, "Uncle Davey"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "C Spivey" <cspivey@premiercomp.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:bv9acb$ndn$1@news.chatlink.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two Thousand Years ago a certain Man, innocent of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrongdoing, was taken into custody by the authorities,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given a trial in which He was charged of crimes He had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not committed, and even when "no fault" could be
>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Him,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was condemned to the cruelest death that man could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it should not be supposed that simply because these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Two Thousand Years have passed that this terrible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> miscarriage of justice will not be avenged in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Highest Court! Nor should it be supposed that everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part in this travesty will escape the judgment of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Court!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You may think you know nothing, at all, about this event.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you are still guilty of His blood, and it behooves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, now, to cry unto Him, "the Judge of all the earth",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for mercy and grace, in, what cannot be otherwise, your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impending and eternal doom!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His name is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour, who, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the great
>>>>>>> est
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> love
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and grace, paid our debt of sin, Himself, on the Cross of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Calvary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though He was crucified at the hands of wicked men, Jews
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Gentiles are guilty of His death. But more, it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your sins, your life style, that nailed Him to the Cross,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you are not innocent in this matter, but guilty as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged. Yet because He not only was innocent of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrongdoing, but righteous in all that He did, the grave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could not hold Him. Death had no claim upon Him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consequently, by His own Almighty power He arose from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dead; and alive forever more, He is seeking for
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a part in His crucifixion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it seems to me that the wisest thing that any man
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could do under such circumstances is to plead for mercy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from this Court of Justice. Because this Man, whom you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have crucified (your sins also nailed Him to the cross),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is alive, and He is coming again to take vengeance upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all mankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ is The Judge of All the Earth!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I. for one, am certainly responsible for Christ's death on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> cross.
>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins, He died, to take the punishment for them. The same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> punishment cannot be demanded twice, and so my Judge has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> become my Saviour!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.usenetposts.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your picture does not reveal your age :).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting. As an eyewitness of the conviction and
>>>>>>>>>>>> murder of Jesus Christ by the Jews and Romans, you must
>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously have been able to speak and understand Hebew,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Aramaic, Greek, and Latin spoke by the rest of the people
>>>>>>>>>>>> there; or maybe just Hebrew.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible does not tell us everything that happened, so why
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't you fill me in on what you personally witnessed two
>>>>>>>>>>>> thousand years ago when you took part in the execution of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You're writing like someone who doesn't believe in
>>>>>>>>>>> predestination.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know what election and predestination is and what it is
>>>>>>>>>> not. I also know about our identification in Christ,
>>>>>>>>>> substitution, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know of know scripture that says that Christians living
>>>>>>>>>> today are responsible for the behavior of non-christians
>>>>>>>>>> 2000 years ago.
>>>>>>>>>> God is a just God and judges individuals based on individual
>>>>>>>>>> behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Saying that Christ died for you is tantamount to saying that
>>>>>>>>> you put him there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Otherwise, how do you parse the verse about people crucifying
>>>>>>>>> to themselves the Son of God afresh?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If Christ had not meant to die for us, then He could have
>>>>>>>>> escaped, as He did those other times, before His time was
>>>>>>>>> ready.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because it is talking about crucifying to "themselves".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christ meant to die for our sins, but only for those we commit.
>>>>>>>> But since you brought it up, what evidence do you have from the
>>>>>>>> scriptures that Christ knew that he would be crucified for the
>>>>>>>> body of Christ? We know that he knew he was being crucified for
>>>>>>>> the Jews of that time. We know that he was able to endure the
>>>>>>>> cross for the glory set before him. But, the mystery was not
>>>>>>>> revealed until it was made known to the apostle Paul, so had
>>>>>>>> God revealed that part of the plan to Him before the
>>>>>>>> crucifixion or wait until after the crucifixion to reveal it
>>>>>>>> to him?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One massive piece of evidence is that he prays for future
>>>>>>> believers in John 17, "neither pray I for these alone..." and
>>>>>>> there are all the the prophetical passages about the end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now here we see how your belief that Christ is not God Almighty
>>>>>>> interferes with your understanding of what Christ knew. Clearly
>>>>>>> he knew what would be h ereafter, and the name of all that
>>>>>>> would come to him. He never lost that knowledge, even being a
>>>>>>> tiny baby lying in a manger. He never stopped being God and in
>>>>>>> Him dwelt all the fullness of the godhead bodily. So therefore
>>>>>>> of course He new whatever God the Father knew before Paul knew
>>>>>>> it. 'Never revealed before' does not include Jesus, and that is
>>>>>>> clear to all but the tiny majority of Bible believers who have
>>>>>>> managed to escape the fact that Jesus is the LORD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's right, Uncle. Read Zachariah 2:8-11
>>>>>> "For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He has
>>>>>> sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches
>>>>>> you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave My
>>>>>> hand over them, so that they will be plunder for their slaves.
>>>>>> Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent Me. Sing for
>>>>>> joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and
>>>>>> will dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'And many nations
>>>>>> will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My
>>>>>> people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that
>>>>>> the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.'"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LORD of hosts sends LORD of hosts, here.
>>>>>> God sends God
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That makes Ariaan happy!
>>>>>> Yaaahooooo!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ariaan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely, you haven't read my earlier post about Zech, otherwise you
>>>>> would not have repeated the modification of the text by
>>>>> capitalizing "me".
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would someone being wrong make you happy? Why do you need
>>>>> someone to agree with you to establish your faith? Are you
>>>>> getting desperate? Are you a drowning man reaching out for
>>>>> anything that passes by to hold you up? Careful, whale
>>>>> excrement, might float for a little while but will surely sink.
>>>>> When you are drowning in an ocean of doubt, fear, and
>>>>> desperation, calm down inhale some pneuma and float to shore.
>>>>> Backfloat so you can pass the time reading the Word on your way
>>>>> to shore or so that if you don't have a Bible you can look up
>>>>> into the stars and read the Word He wrote in the stars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> Heh heh heh, no, I'm not drowning at all. I'm just celebrating my
>>>> knowledge of Christ's deity.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and I don't think I've seen you refute my interpretation of
>>>> this text. All I saw was a weak argument that this should be some
>>>> sort of figurative text. You didn't even address the fact that it
>>>> says the LORD is being sent by the LORD.
>
> It does not say "the LORD is being sent by the LORD" does it? Those
> are your words, not words contained in the verse.
>>>>
>>>> Ariaan
>>>>
>>> So you missed the part where I admonished you for capitalizing the
>>> word "me". And now you change the actual words in the Word to
>>> support your belief system. Wonder where that inspiration came
>>> from? Quote for me the words from which you wrongly divided "the
>>> LORD is being sent by the LORD" that do not appear in the text.
>>> Then read the verses in context and tell me who "me" is in "he sent
>>> me" in verse nine (Hint try reading in the contextd starting at
>>> 2:1).
>>
>> Zechariah 2: 8-11: "For thus says the LORD of hosts, 'After glory He
>> has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who
>> touches you, touches the apple of His eye. For behold, I will wave
>> My hand over them, so that they will be plunder for their slaves.
>> Then you will know that the LORD of Hosts has sent Me. Sing for joy
>> and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and will
>> dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD. 'And many nations will join
>> themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I
>> will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts
>> has sent Me to you.'"
>
> Why did you capitalize "me"? "me" is not God. Read the context
> starting at verse 2:1.
>>
>> Here God (the LORD of hosts) says that God (the One who has a people
>> that are the apple of His eye) has sent Him.
>
> It does not say "Him", you are changing teh Word. It says sent "me"
> and "me" is not Him and "me" is not "Me" and "me" is not God and "me"
> is the speaker from verse 2:1.
>
>> God (the LORD of hosts) says that He will wave His hand over them,
>> so that they will know that God (the LORD of hosts) has sent Him.
>
> Doesn't say "Him"
>
>> God (the LORD of hosts) says He will come and everyone will know
>> that God (the LORD of hosts) has sent Him
>
> Doesn't say "Him"
>>
>> So the LORD of hosts is being sent by the LORD of hosts
>> Hmmm, seems pretty clear to me.
>
> Clear to you because that is what you want to see, but that is not
> what it says is it?
>>
>> And here is your context, taken from the King James:
>
> You forgot verses 1-5.
>
>> 6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith
>> the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the
>> heaven, saith the LORD.
>> 7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of
>> Babylon. 8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath
>> he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth
>> you toucheth the apple of his eye.
>> 9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be
>> a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts
>> hath sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I
>> come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
>> 11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and
>> shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou
>> shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
>> 12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land,
>> and shall choose Jerusalem again.
>> 13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out
>> of his holy habitation.
>> 1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
>> angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist
>> him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan;
>> even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a
>> brand plucked out of the fire?
>>
>> Clearly the LORD of host is sending the LORD of hosts.
>> There are two (2) LORDs of hosts here.
>
> Who is "I" in Zec 2:2 and "me" in 3:1 amd "me" in verse 9?
>>
>> >snip<
>> Ariaan
>>> Ariaan, while it is fun for us to banter back and forth. It is not
>>> profitable to you, to me, to the body, to the Lord Jesus Christ, or
>>> to God to wrongly divide the Word to prove a point of ego. How do
>>> you expect God to teach you if your bucket is full? The word
>>> "meek" means willing to learn. God teaches the Word to those who
>>> are "meek".
>>>
>>> BB
>>
>> Wrongly dividing the Word is not fun either. So I feel I have to
>> keep this up.
>>
>> Ariaan
>>
>>
> The "me" in verse nine is Zechariah speaking of his visions. Verses
> have to be read in context..
>
> BB
The LORD of hosts says it about Himself. "For thus says the LORD of
hosts, 'After glory He has sent me (....) I will wave My hand over them ...
then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me ... behold, I am
coming ... declares the LORD ... and many nations .... will become My people
... Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of
hosts has sent Me to you."
ariaan
(see the other one)
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