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From: "Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Evolution - Blind Heart Surgery
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:28:01 +0000 (UTC)
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> AC <mightymartianca@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:<slrnc1843b.1j0.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem>...
> > ["Followup-To:" header set to talk.origins.]
> > On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 14:51:56 +0000 (UTC),
> > Piorokrat <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
> > >
> > > news:slrnc167m3.bc.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
> > >> ["Followup-To:" header set to talk.origins.]
> > >
> > > Would the crown fall from your head if you actually allowed my group
to stay
> > > in the discussion, without making me write it back in every time?
> > >
> > >> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:58:31 +0000 (UTC),
> > >> Bennett Standeven <berry@pop.networkusa.net> wrote:
> > >> > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> > news:<buttes$csv$0@pita.alt.net>...
> > >> >> "Ineedmoney" <mail@atmycomputer.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> > >> >> news:butqab$a2v$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> > >> >> > news:butoq1$4hq$0@pita.alt.net...
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > "Cheezits" <cheezits32@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> >> > > news:Xns947A4B5CBF133cheezitsnetzeronet@129.250.170.83...
> > >> >> > > > laurieappieton@aol.com (LaurieAppIeton) won't even try to
defend
> > this
> > >> >> > > > nonsense, but let's have some fun with it anyway:
> > >> >> > > > > 1) no natural process which resulted in information
forming
> > >> >> > > > > automatically in matter, has ever been observed;
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > No act of divine creation has ever been observed.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Oh yes it has, Sue. When God confounded the languages at
Babel,
> > humanity
> > was
> > >> >> > > able to observe it. That's why we were scattered all over the
> > earth, and
> > we
> > >> >> > > speak languages whose families cannot possibly have a common
> > ancestor.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Any evidence of that outside the Bible, shmuck?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Ed
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sure.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> All the evidence of a lack of common ancestor between the various
> > language
> > >> >> families lies in the fact that in the nearly two hundred years of
> > sensible
> > >> >> study of philology that we have had, no-one has been able to posit
one.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Or even give a reasonable envisaging of one.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So, if you would like to say that it's wrong, then kindly show me
what
> > the
> > >> >> common ancestor language could have looked like between, say,
> > Finno-Ugric
> > >> >> and Indo-European, and kindly leave my genitalia out of this
discussion
> > if
> > >> >> you want to continue to be treated with respect. There are many
more
> > >> >> elevated uses of Yiddish phraseology.
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Look up Nostratic; it is a putative common ancestor of Finno-Ugric
and
> > >> > Indo-European. Of course, the "fossil record" for languages only
goes
> > >> > back 6000 years, so anything prior to that is guesswork.
> > >>
> > >> As far as I know, this is hardly accepted by most linguists, and
really
> > the
> > >> whole thing is besides the point. Uncle Davey seems to have created
this
> > >> odd bit of illogic where we need to find a common ancestor between
all
> > >> languages, otherwise the theory of biological evolution is not true.
> > First
> > >> of all, linguistics does not require that we actually be able to tie
any
> > of
> > >> the major language groups together with common ancestors (though that
> > would
> > >> be cool), and language evolution shows some similarity to biological
> > >> evolution, is a seperate process relying upon different mechanisms.
> > >>
> > >> IN other words, Uncle Davey is just spouting nonsense.
> > >
> > > Nonsense, you say, but my question has got all your side coming back
with
> > > contradictory arguments.
> >
> > And what are those contradictory arguments. Spell them out.
Some of you are saying languages don't subject to the laws of evolution, and
some of you are saying they do.
> >
> > > Nonsense shouldn't have that effect, now, should it?
> >
> > The only nonsense around here is that you take two processes which are
> > described by the word evolution and hung one on the other. At best,
that is
> > the sign of a dishonest individual trying to score a weak rhetorical
point.
> >
> > And we know that you are a dishonest person.
Just deal with the issues, not my imperfections, perfectionboy.
That's what you would do, if you were so honest yourself.
>
> At times he seems to be conflating at least three processes. There is
> biological evolution itself, then there are two senses of the term
> "linguistic evolution": the evolution of languages (e.g., Latin to
> French), and the evolution of the capacity for language. As you know,
> the latter is presumably a subset of biological evolution, and
> scientists have attempted to account for it as such. The former
> could, I suppose, be a subset of biological evolution, but Sockdaddy
> needs to explain why.
That's Sockuncle, to you.
The reason is that languages are part of the human biology.
Just say, just say that isn't true.
> Most of all, he needs to identify which process
> he's referring to, else he's just another decerebriate claiming that
> theories of biological evolution must account for every process with a
> name with the word "evolution" in it.
>
> Mitchell Coffey
So you're calling people who believe that biological evolution accounts for
more than it really does 'decerebriate' (sic) are you?
That's a good one.
I'll remember that as the reason people think we can get from kind to kind
by evolution.
Uncle Davey
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