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From: "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Hello T.O.
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 00:14:12 +0000 (UTC)
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> "Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote:
>
> >As far as I can make out there are two main schools of thought on the
> >origins of the world, Creation and Evolution. Creationists may differ
among
> >themselves as to the exact answer to questions and evolutionists do also,
> >but effectively these are the two schools.
>
> No, that's a misconception common among creationists, who don't seem to
> grasp how specialized the world of science has become -- indeed,
> creationists often act as if science and evolution were one and the
> same.
>
> Evolution theorists are concerned with how species turn into other
> species; that's all. The origin of life is a different area of study, as
> is the origin of the planet we call Earth.
>
> >if you take Usenet as a cross-section of world society
>
> It's not. Usenet is a self-selected population.
>
> >We are Creationists, you are Evolutionists, who's gonna make you guys
think
> >if we don't?
>
> Discoveries made in the real world?
>
> >As scientists, you should welcome an opposition, you should even for that
> >reason be willing to have both sides presented to kids in class.
>
> But you're not opposition. You are to biology what astrology is to
> astronomy. You are no more opposition than the Flat Earth Society is
> opposition to NASA.
>
> However, as a political movement trying to push us into a Taliban-like
> theocracy, you ARE of some concern. The fear of that happening is what
> drives most anti-creationists.
>
> >But Lenny, and others, defend their position with zealous envy, and when
any
> >Creationist wishing to put the view from the other side comes along they
get
> >treated as if they were Jehovah's Witnesses or something. I don't call
that
> >a spirit of scientific enquiry.
>
> Then you don't know what scientific inquiry is. The politically correct
> notion that, in the interest of fairness and playing nice, everyone's
> opinion is worthy of respect is simply absurd in the world of science.
> When it comes to science, the proof is in the pudding: you put up or
> shut up.
>
Okay, but that is not necessarily the right spirit to come to God in. God
requires faith. You require evidence. If I could scientifically prove God,
it would actually be a disaster, because faith would be of none effect.
That is also why there is no attempt to push you into a taliban like
theocracy. Obedience to God should be out of gratitude for a forgiveness and
salvation already freely given to someone who repents and believes.
No real faith, which involves a choice often against the odds, no real
repentance, no real salvation. Hence earthly theocracy is not in the model,
at least not in the gospel era. Some fundamentalists have ideas about a
millennium of theocracy, but as a Calvinist I don't take a view on exactly
where we are with those scriptures.
Neither is faith about seeing proof in the shape of signs and wonders.
Signs and wonders have been done in the past, but they weren't usually good
news, and often ended in tears. The way we are to come to God is by faith in
His word.
Probably science on it's own, as defined by you, is incapable of answering
the questions about origins and purposes.
Probably science can't prove, for example, the existence of love.
Or do you think you can do that, using the standards of evidence you want
from the likes of me?
Uncle Davey
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