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From: Lenny Flank <lflank_nospam@ij.net>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Hello T.O.
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:18:43 +0000 (UTC)
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Piorokrat wrote:
>
>>In free.christians I read this message from "Piorokrat"
>><piorokrat@autograf.pl>:
>>
>>
>
> w
>
>>>
>>>>In talk.origins I read this message from "Piorokrat"
>>>><piorokrat@autograf.pl>:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My view of God is that he can simply call things into existence in an
>>>>>already completed and mature state.
>>>>
>>>>I thought this was what you meant, but I could not believe it.
>>>>You actually believe in a God who deceives people. That is what
>>>>you have said. God makes things look like they have a past, a
>>>>history. They look like they had gone through events that had not
>>>>taken place. So, for instance, God could have created the world
>>>>Last Thursday and just made it look old. How could you tell if
>>>>you have a God willing to deceive people like that?
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>
>>>There is so much deceit in this world that if we are going to start
>
> blaming
>
>>>God for deceit we'll get nowhere regardless of what we think about
>
> evolution
>
>>>and creation.
>>
>>Huh?
>>
>>
>>>The point is he TOLD us that it was made perfect, ie. mature.
>>
>>How do you go from "perfect" to "mature"? Perhaps you can argue
>>that since the world is perfect it does not change. That would
>>make some sense even though it is contradicted by observation.
>>But I see nothing that says perfect is mature. And God does not
>>say the world is perfect, he ways it is good.
>>
>>
>>>If you chosse to believe otherwise, up to you.
>>
>>Believe you and your understanding? No, I don't choose to do
>>that. Otherwise please do not confuse yourself with God.
>>
>>
>>>It's obvious that when Adam was made at creation, he already was made say
>
> 33
>
>>>years old, he didn't have to wait 33 years of earthly life like Christ
>
> did,
>
>>>who was never created but was made flesh in this world a baby.
>>
>>So Christ was not perfect, right?
>
>
> He was perfect, according to scripture his being fathered by the holy spirit
> and only having a human mother meant that he was not an heir of original
> sin. From this we learn that the father passes down the original sin, and
> not the mother. The mother passes the mitochondria, which is life. Eve, the
> name of the primordial mother of makind, means life.
>
> Like ancient Hebrew science knew about the mitochondria.
>
> A person's mother gives them the inheritance of life, their father gives
> them the inheritance of death.
>
> But Christ had no human father.
>
>
>>>He and Eve were created already grown up people, with a language that
>
> they
>
>>>could speak normally learned for years from parents. Some people say Adam
>>>would have had no navel, but I see no problem with him even having been
>>>created with a navel. Everyone else has one.
>>
>>Did they have navels? (This is a serious question.) Did they have
>>scars from childhood accidents that never occurred? How about
>>memories?
>
>
> Scars in the pre-fallen world would have been unlikely.
>
> Memories would probably have been inappropriate, but you could counter me
> hear and say that language and thought and memory are so bound up that we
> cannot have language without it.
>
> All I can say there is that we don't know what the pre-Babel language
> sounded like, or what the thoughts of Adam were like.
>
> Maybe there were notional default memories, maybe not. I cannot say.
>
>
>>>I don't see the deceit there, it only looks like deceit if you've been
>>>believing the humanist version of the world, which really is a deceit.
>>
>>The deceit is making the world look old, making it look like
>>events had occurred that had not occurred.
>>
>
>
> But if you tell people plainly enough that they didn't occur, then they have
> a real choice as to what they believe.
>
> If it were made obvious to you what happened, you would have no choice but
> to believe and your faith, which is what it's all about, would be of no
> value.
>
> Here we are, however, in a world where both a creationist and an
> evolutionary view exist. All other views about origins, such as Ra sneezing,
> are pretty much museum pieces and no-one is campaigning for the Sneeze of Ra
> to be put forward as a serious option in the classroom.
>
> So you are effectively offered a choice of two, do you want to believe in
> evolution, and listen to the words of so-called science, when they are not
> actually able to prove the non-existence of God despite the fact that they
> claim to be able to work on proof, or do you want to go down the route of
> faith and accept what the Bible says about origins, bearing in mind that we
> cannot prove our claims any more than the other side can disprove them. This
> is the test of faith. I believe there is a reward for people who are able to
> utilise faith in this dilemma, and go against wordly wisdom; they are well
> on their way to understanding many more things from the Bible, and can hope
> to meet the Saviour in its pages, the most important meeting of their lives.
> Belief in evolution and in the God of creation will lead to a greater
> popularity with men, but it is harder then to believe in the other things in
> the Bible, and not many of them will ever really have that meeting with
> their Saviour while they are still breathing and there is hope of salvation.
>
Thaks for sharing your religious opinoions with us.
Are you speaking to us on behalf of God, or on behalf of yourself.
Or isn't there any difference.
===============================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked:
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
DebunkCreation Email list:
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation
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