Piorokrat wrote:
> news:3fdf081c_4@corp.newsgroups.com...
>
>>Piorokrat wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Uncle Davey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So, for me, the best definition of a kind, true to both what I have
>
> been
>
>>>>>priviledged to observe of nature as well as in the Word of God, would
>
> be
>
>>>>>"the whole population of descendents of a group of animals or plants
>>>
>>>which,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>at the time of their creation, were able to breed and have offspring
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>>>were fertile."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sounds fine to me. Now how do you go about telling, in the present
>>>>world, whether two organisms belong to the same or different kinds?
>>>>Because all the evidence leads *me* to believe that there's only one
>
> kind.
>
>>>>In particular, how do you tell that humans belong to a different kind
>>>
>>>>from the African apes?
>>>
>>>
>>>Well I've given you a philosophical answer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Oops---you mis-spelled "religious answer".
>>
>>
>>Is that because you don't have a scientific answer?
>>
>
>
> It's because science doesn't necessarily have an answer to the question
> "what is a biblical kind?".
>
> Or do you think it does?
It does if you want to claim that your religious beleifs are "science".
But hey, if the BIBLE can't tell you what a "kind" is either, then my
question still remains unanswered ---- if you don't know what the hell a
"kind" is, then how can you tell whether or not one kind evolved into
another.
It's a simple question.
>
> In any event, that was the question that was asked.
>
The question was "if you can't tell what a kind is, then how the hell
can you tell ifg one kind has evolved into another."
I don't give a flying fig whether you use a scientific definition of a
kind or a biblical definition of a kind or a definition that came froma
seance with your dead great-grandmother. If you don't know what it
is, then you don't know what it is. Period. And if you don't know what
it is, how the hell do you know that it can or can't evolve into another
kind.
It's a simple question.
>
>>
>>
>>I didn't say it would be
>>
>>>possible to check and know for sure exactly what is in the same kind.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Uh, if you can't tell what a kind is aor whether two things are or are
>>not different "kinds", then how the hell can you tell whether or not one
>>"kind" has evolved into another?
>>
>>Or do you just want us to take your religious word for it?
>>
>>
>
>
> The question was, how does one define a biblical kind.
That was not the question.
I'll ask the question again: if you don't know what a kind is, how the
hell do you know whether or not one kind can evolve into another.
That applies for "biblical kind", for "scientific kind", for "whoopsie
doopsie kind".
If you don't know what a kind is, then you don't know what a kind is.
Period.
And if you don't know what a kind is, how the hell do you know if one
kind has evolved into another.
>
> By definition a biblical kind will not evolve into another.
>
>
>>
How do you know, if you don't know what a biblical kind **IS**.
And why does Behe think your religious opinion is full of shit, anyway?
>>
>>>I can say that probably all the Corydoras are in the same kind, but for
>
> all
>
>>>I know there might have been more than one kind of Corydoras, or maybe
>
> the
>
>>>Corydoras are in one kind with the Aspidoras. I really have no way of
>
> being
>
>>>sure about it.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Then how can you be sure that one kind cannot evolve into another kind.
>>
>
>
> Kinds are like that.
> Kinda.
Hardy har har. You're a funny guy.
Now answer my fucking question.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>But the same applies to the Linnean taxa, such as species, genus, etc.
>
> There
>
>>>has been to my mind, speaking really only from what I know which is
>>>ichthyology, no end of subjectivity in how these taxa are defined and
>>>applied.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Right. That's because these entities all evolve into each other. They
>>are not distinct and separate.
>>
>>They are not separate "kinds".
>>
>
>
> There must be separate kinds amongst them , it's just where exactly the cut
> off is that is the tricky question.
>
If you don't know the line between kinds, how the hell do you know
whether humans and chimps are or are not the same kind.
Or do you jsut want us to take your religious word for it. What, again,
is the source of your religious authority? Why, again, should we listen
to YOUR religious opinion on this matter and not, say, Behe's or Spong's
or Mother Theresa's?
>
>
>>
>>
>>There are fish that have about 6 or 7 synonyms for their Linnean
>>
>>>binomial. Have a look at Pseudorinelepis, for example. (I've got a
>
> female
>
>>>that is egg bound, and I'm looking for a male by the way.)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Er, so what.
>>
>
>
> Duh! So I need a male one, obviously.
>
> You know any hermaphrodite catfishes?
>
Hardy har har. You're still a funny guy.
Now answer my fucking question.
===============================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Creation "Science" Debunked:
http://www.geocities.com/lflank
DebunkCreation Email list:
http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation
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