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From: "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: The Koran: Worthy of Belief?
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:32:43 +0100
Organization: Ladny Tylek & Takdalej
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news:U5kCb.62756$bC.53634@clgrps13...
>
> "Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote in message
> news:brci4q$8ri$1@news.onet.pl...
> >
> > news:zRjCb.62749$bC.27746@clgrps13...
> > >
> > > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> > > news:brc5ro$ptq$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
> > > >
> > > > news:F7cCb.2396$Co1.644@twister.socal.rr.com...
> > > > > 1MAN4ALL wrote:
> > > > > > "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <news@jcsm.org> wrote in message
> > news:<qhSBb.396
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Explain what you wish. Ignore what you wish. The entire page
is
> > > > > >> important.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you wish. I'll explain the first five.
> > > > >
> > > > > I appreciate your responses. I have some comments and responses
to
> > > yours.
> > > > > They are written below.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Under your heading:
> > > > > >> THE CHRISTIANS AND THE JEWS
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Chapter 2: The Cow 2.135: And they say: Be Jews or Christians,
> you
> > > > > >> will be on > the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the
religion
> > of
> > > > > >> Ibrahim, the Hanif,
> > > > > >> and he was not one of the polytheists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This verse refers to the fact that Abraham was neither a "Jew"
nor
> a
> > > > > > "Christian" and yet he was the most upright man in the eyes of
> God.
> > In
> > > > > > other words, one does not have to belong to a race of "Chosen
> > People"
> > > > > > or merely believe in Jesus to become "saved."
> > > > >
> > > > > Jesus Christ didn't come until hundreds of years after Abraham.
> > > > Therefore,
> > > > > people don't call Abraham a Christian. However, he is known as
> > "Father
> > > > > Abraham" because he was the father to the Jewish nation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, the second sentence you wrote may be a Muslim belief.
However,
> > if
> > > > you
> > > > > want to convince a Christian that what you say is true, it would
be
> > more
> > > > > credible to cite more than Cow 2.135. If all you cite is this
> > passage,
> > > > then
> > > > > all we have is non-biblical literature saying Christians are
wrong.
> > > This
> > > > > isn't surprising or very credible; in itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > > It is Muslims, like
> > > > > > Prophet Abraham, who believe in one God, without associating
> > partners
> > > > > > in His divinity, and must follow the right path which God has
> shown
> > > > > > through His prophets (Abraham Moses, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus and
> Prophet
> > > > > > Muhammad.) See also the next verse, 2:136.
> > > > >
> > > > > Abraham knew Yahweh. He knew Elohim. He knew the Holy Spirit.
> > > > Therefore,
> > > > > the Godhead was surely known to Him.
> > > >
> > > > Three men came to him at Mamre, and he saw one of them was the LORD,
> the
> > > > other two were the two angels sent in the next Chapter to destroy
> Sodom.
> > > The
> > > > thrird was the LORD who stayed back to speak to Abraham and hear his
> > > > intercession for Sodom. This was the preincarnate Christ, God
> appearing
> > as
> > > a
> > > > man, although not yet, in our historical terms, born as a baby.
> > > >
> > > > So he certainly knew Christ. As did Adam, when God walked in the
> garden
> > > and
> > > > asked him where he was. The first Adam and the Second, meeting face
to
> > > face.
> > > >
> > > > The first made in the image of the Second, He might even have looked
> > like
> > > > his twin brother.
> > > >
> > > > The first with a wound print in his side, where a rib was taken to
> make
> > > his
> > > > bride.
> > > >
> > > > The Second with a wound print in His side, from which blood and
water
> > > flowed
> > > > to
> > > > forgive and wash the Church and make her His Bride.
> > > >
> > > > Men of Islam, look and see what Christ has ordained even from before
> the
> > > > foundation of the world.
> > > >
> > > > Uncle Davey
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Oye .... I want to take this back to my Muslim friend, but
> > > it's beginning to really kick in what my mommy always
> > > taught me: "Never argue about religion and politics
> > > with friends." .. . heh ...
> > >
> > > la n.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > If you don't, how do you know they're your friends?
>
> Well my Catholic priest friend asks me if we can be
> friends without always arguing about religion,
I would say 'despite' instead of 'without', since the search for truth is
paramount.
> and I
> don't want to wear down my Muslim friend with
> questions, but I might just pose this one to him.
> Although spanish is his first language, and that's
> a lot of (english) script up there.
>
> >
> > Uncle Davey
> >
> >
>
> la n.
>
How about yourself, what is your view on what I said about Christ as the
second Adam?
Uncle Davey
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