In article <0001HW.BF5F7E9B004DFF1CF0305550@news.easynews.com>, Caprice
<Caprice@badluck.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:44:42 -0700, Y-Not:: wrote
> (in article <270920052244423538%$9+-Y-Not@here.com>):
>
> > In article <MAi_e.235348$E8.127659@fe06.news.easynews.com>, PM
> > <@cannon.bang> wrote:
> >
> >> "::Y-Not::" <$9+-Y-Not@here.com> wrote in
> >> news:270920051459523014%$9+-Y-Not@here.com:
> >>
> >>> In article <1127817232.175086d6eca69bc3c88eb5b52919ba0a@teranews>,
> >>> apoapo <apoapo(nospam)@hushmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Is it really my fault, that you and others will miss my further posts
> >>>> after I got offended because someone was aware of a smale private bit
> >>>> of my doing? But certainly you and others have a store nearby, where
> >>>> you can get better and cheaper stuff!
> >>>>
> >>>> apoapo :-((
> >>>
> >>> You will post or not post. That is your decision. It should be
> >>> respected.
> >>> But to choose to stop posting because you were insulted for doing
> >>> something that deeply insulted others, and was SURE to cause you to be
> >>> insulted in return, well, yes, that IS your fault,
> >>> This situation, with private posts done in public, ALWAYS causes the
> >>> problems you had. Even if you hadn't seen this happen the many time it
> >>> has in the past, common sense should have told you what would happen.
> >>> You could SEE it start to happen as it did, yet you did not choose to
> >>> do things in a way that would have made the situation better.
> >>>
> >>> People should respect what you do, any way that you choose to do it,
> >>> even if you choose to post things they want, even if you rub their
> >>> noses in the fact that you want to keep it from them. Many people
> >>> won't stand for that. Please try to see this from their point of view.
> >>> They felt deeply insulted by what you were doing, and got angry
> >>> because of that. This made YOU feel insulted, but the CAUSE, and the
> >>> first insult, was what YOU did. I agree with you that they shouldn't
> >>> feel as they did, because you should have a right to do what you want
> >>> to, but this part of Usenet is a public COMMUNITY, not separate little
> >>> private clubs, and what you did seriously disturbed this community.
> >>> People here feel that what is shared, should be available to ALL, and
> >>> not to a select few. We can't change this feeling, but we CAN work
> >>> around it, by making private sharing MORE private, and not as public
> >>> as you did it.
> >>>
> >>> We are a strange diverse and persecuted community, in an anarchistic
> >>> environment, made of very diverse outspoken individuals. Many of then
> >>> have some mental and emotional problems that they insist on sharing
> >>> with us. We can't change this, but we CAN make things worse, if we
> >>> don't act with this in mind. We can't change how people here will
> >>> behave, except slightly, one individual at a time. If we expect a
> >>> group of them to behave in a way we think they SHOULD be, we are
> >>> foolish, and sometimes even distractive.
> >>>
> >>> You acted in a way that was sure to inflame people. You should accept
> >>> responsibility for this, and not blame others for behaving as if you
> >>> had insulted them first, because you DID insult them with what you
> >>> were doing.
> >>> Is it fair and honorable to stop posting a movie that was in progress,
> >>> in this group, because of a situation you caused in another group? Is
> >>> it fair to "punish" the downloaders here, with an incomplete set of
> >>> parts that will not now be completed? Some of them are modem users,
> >>> that will have wasted their connection time, who could have been
> >>> downloading something else. Would you think it fair, is someone had
> >>> done this to you?
> >>>
> >>> Please reconsider what you are doing here. I'm not insulting you. I'm
> >>> just trying to explain this situation to you, from the perspective of
> >>> someone who has seen this happen many times, and who has worked very
> >>> hard to heal these situations.
> >>>
> >>> Personal note:
> >>> Usenet is not a good place for people who are easily offended.
> >>> A sense of humor helps. :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Take care,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Y Not
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Opening the mind can open the heart.
> >>> Opening the heart can open the mind."
> >>>
> >> Hi Y-Not
> >> I feel that where I in the position of Apoapo, and he explained the
> >> posting in another group to me by private e-mail, I would do exactly the
> >> same, although not to not complete a post. Apoapo had some private items
> >> which he preferred not to make public.His prerogataive. There is nothing
> >> at all to say that whatever he had posted was an open invitation to all
> >> and sundry to download, nor should anyone expect to just sit there and
> >> wait for posts, and then complain if they dont get them. They were posted
> >> in a group that I personally had never heard of, and I came across the
> >> group quite by accident from another source. I mailed Apoapo and made a
> >> polite enquiry regarding the 001 files, and the explanation he gave me
> >> was quite satisfactory and I understood the reason for it. Had I anything
> >> I wished only a few friends of mine to see, rather than become an open
> >> post, then I would also do the same. I do not have anything which I
> >> consider is personal, but had the subject ever arisen then I would have
> >> posted in such a way that only the recipients the post was meant for
> >> received the post. There are many posters on here, some popular, some not
> >> so popular etc, but that does not stop people asking them to post. All
> >> the ones who seem to be complaining are the ones who dont post anyway.
> >> There are about 85,000 groups on my servers, have they all checked them
> >> all to see if anyone is posting elsewhere? Give the guy credit for all he
> >> has done, surely a couple of vids the complainants didnt get are not the
> >> end of the world. I do think that maybe Apoapo could maybe have finished
> >> the vid, as I was going to repost in another group for those who have
> >> problems with the horse, but he made a decision which he stuck by. After
> >> all Apoapo has done in these groups surely he is entitled to a bit of
> >> freedom to do as he likes. PM. NP.f35.
> >
> > I agree with all you say. But each of us only speaks for our own
> > feelings and behavior. Other people aren't as we. Not everyone is so
> > reasonable and, ah, civilized. (Ha!) There is no social restraint in
> > Usenet, to help less self-controlled individuals to moderate their
> > behavior. This is obvious. Failure to take this into account when we
> > plan our actions, is a fault. Blaming this fault on others, is another
> > fault. Punishing other people for our faults, is NOT good, no matter
> > who caused what.
> >
> > In dealing with social situations, we need to understand and accept
> > that what we do is perceived differently by other people, and then work
> > within that social framework. Not doing this, causes MORE trouble.
> >
> > There is NO useful society where everyone can get away with doing
> > exactly what he wants, not even the anarchistic society we have here.
> > Even the Trolls have rules of behavior they follow.
> > In doing what we want to, without care for the consequences, whether we
> > are right or not, we ARE partly responsible for what happens.
> > He posted what he wanted to, the way he wanted to. SO DID THE
> > COMPLAINERS. If we assert his right to do that, then we must not do the
> > double standard thing, and deny others the right to post what they did,
> > in opposition. I could have stepped in and defended the posters. I
> > would have, had I thought they had "right", instead of uncaring elitist
> > foolishness, on their side.
> >
> > This very situation has happened many times. It always caused problems,
> > and has actually killed groups, and caused the people who posted to
> > that mess, to stop posting for a long time. Yet people still refuse to
> > learn from the past, and insist on "doing their (private in public)
> > thing", just because they feel like it, without regard to what it does
> > to this society and the very posters who do it.
> > He posted in a way that directly caused him to decide to stop posting.
> > Where ELSE to put the blame for that, but at it's source?
> >
> > Obelix did the same thing, that caused the same problems, in spite of
> > my efforts to heal the situation. He was too sure of himself, that he
> > could post just the way he wanted to. Some others didn't see it that
> > way, and chose to not let him. He moved to a new group, and started the
> > same situation all over again. They followed him. He stopped posting BL
> > things, completely. After all these years, he is STILL bitter about it,
> > and still blames others for the problems he caused himself, and FOR
> > himself. He's had years to live with his unnecessary bad feelings. I
> > don't want Apoapo to feel as bad, for so long.
> >
> > I recommend that he relax, admit to himself what actually happened and
> > the root cause of it, ignore the complaining losers, abandon the
> > "private" posting as he was doing it, and go back to being his usual
> > wonderful self. If he chooses not to post, that's up to him, but he can
> > still be a nice person.
> >
> > This situation has happened many times, and I have said all this an
> > almost equal number of times.
> > Those who don't learn, are condemned. Ah, from the past. Ah, to repeat
> > it. OK, I got it:
> > "Those who don't learn from the past, are condemned to repeat it."
> >
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> >
> > Y Not
> >
> >
> > "Opening the mind can open the heart.
> > Opening the heart can open the mind."
>
> Civilized? That might be too much to ask. We are all starring in Lord of
> the Flies, not just Ralph and Jack.
>
> I get a bit worried when a person decides they know what's right or wrong in
> a social sense. Anyone can (and should) figure for himself what's right and
> wrong for him. But I don't necessarily want you (small y, you) deciding
> what's right for me. What gives you that kind of authority. Each of us is
> just another member of this community.
>
> Some have been here longer, some shorter. Some post images, some don't.
> Some are rational and some are not. Some are trolls and some are not. This
> is anarchic because there is no authority vested in anyone except through
> persuasive power or time. There is authority from office or higher authority
> (e.g. the FCC or Congress).
>
> This a big barrier to (for example) interfaith dialogue. Any group who feels
> that they have 'special authority' from God, is not open to other points of
> view. They "KNOW" they're right.
>
> Deciding who's right and who's wrong is a self-conferred authority. An
> appeal to common decency or reasonableness has no force. The usenet is
> neither bound to be decent or reasonable.
>
I agree. I also see that you don't seem to want to understand my posts.
Do you deny that is best for people to more fully understand what they
are doing?
Have you watched this as closely as I have, and have seen the
friendships that are dissolving because of this? Another well known
poster addressed this in the Fort. Do you deny that friendships should
be supported, and saved, wherever possible?
Do you deny that doing things that are bound to cause trouble you don't
want, when there are better ways to do it that won't cause problems, is
wrong? Or do you think it's right?
Do you deny that it is wrong to deny mistakes, and repeat them?
(Well, I can answer that. Yes, you do it with every post to me.)
Do you deny that is it right to help people to NOT make the same
mistakes again?
Do you deny that it is RIGHT for people here to get along and be
friends, and be as safe as possible?
THIS is what I work for. All else is to actively support this. Is my
determination that this is what is right, so wrong for YOU?
You took no positions on ANY of these germane issues, so your post is
basically a worthless vague rant against ME. You just can't give it up.
What you don't like is that it is ME who does this work. This is
stupid, because anyone who did this same work, would have to do it
exactly as I have been doing, to have any hope of useful effectiveness.
Some tried, and found this out the hard way, and gave up because they
couldn't take the heat. Some even said this.
It needs to be done, so I do it. I've been getting a lot of emails
recently, since I posted the address again, some from people I've never
heard of, asking me to continue with this work. Actually, that
surprised me. Yes, that can still happen.
As for what's right for YOU, I don't care at this point, just that you
don't bother me. So, now your new nic is added to my ignore list. Did
you think I wouldn't recognize who you are? Not that you tried all that
much to hide it. It might have worked better if you hadn't posted to
me, especially in my group, because then your obsession and bias shows
too much, like a fingerprint. Why do you bother to change nics, when
you post as the same old incompetent you?
You just can't help yourself, but I can. So no soup for you! Ah, posts.
Unless you try to cause harm.
Y Not
PS.
In discussing you with an IM friend, we wondered when you would next
post to me and where it would be.
I'm not going to tell you who won the bet. :-)
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