I take it you interpreted my implication that you may be young as an
insult. It wasn't meant that way. We all were young and had to
figure out the world. Speculating whether someone is young is not
inherently insulting. Nor, hypothetically, would it be inherently
insulting even if I observed that you lived a long life thru reality
and even so had never figured out which end was up (which I am not
doing). That would merely be an observation. And here, only you can
say if that is you. There is not enuff information to conclude that.
About the rest, it is obvious that we must agree (or not agree) to
disagree.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 01:35:26 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
<spirit@stlouis.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Most of your points can be addressed as the governed rising up against
>>the people they hired before it is too late. "Too late" means that
>>ANY dissent is met with physical threat or force (incarceration,
>>etc.). It is easy to see how you could effectively use that to quell
>>any dissent. The will of the majority can swiftly and thoroughly be
>>made irrelevant. This is a very strong argument for all (non-felon)
>>Americans to be armed.
>>
>>I'm trying to decide how hold you are. It seems that you possibly may
>>be a product of the "new liberal education" as opposed to what
>>"liberal education" used to mean.
>>
>>As for examples of our atrocities vs theirs; what about "the victors
>>write the history" don't you get? Or is it that you believe that
>>Germans who when dragged into WWII, were the most literate, and
>>educated nation in the world, are just naturally more likely to create
>>a foot soldier who when forced to fight, will naturally partake in
>>more atrocities than the foot soldier on the other side?
>>
>>As far as the American electorate is concerned, most people don't have
>>enough life experience to grok that there is no salient difference
>>between Democrats and Republicans until they are 40 or so. D/Rs are
>>destroying the country together and separately in their different
>>ways. The end result will be the same. Young people get a free pass
>>when they help to hire the known evil because they haven't figured it
>>out yet. Older people have no excuse.
>>
>>I leave the polls every election smugly knowing I have no part in
>>re-hiring the evil/wrong. When enough other people feel like me, then
>>we may get a positive change.
>
>I am not sure what my personal information has to do with this discussion or why
>you see fit to insult me but, if you must know, I turned 90 in September.
>
>I understand your inability to provide examples of Allied atrocities on par with
>the genocidal behavior of both the Germans and Japanese as there are no such
>atrocities to cite. I am not a fan of conspiracy theories or of nebulous
>"facts" based upon hyperbole such as "The victors write the history".
>
>Both the German and Japanese peoples could have prevented the actions of their
>governments the same way conservative Americans are standing up to and resisting
>the activities of the Obama administration.
>
>I have no doubt that if Mr. Obama were to cross certain lines, his
>administration would rapidly come to an end. This is what the German and
>Japanese people should have done and they wear tremendous shame for not having
>done so. In fact, they bear tremendous culpability for the actions of their
>respective governments, we all do as much as you might wish to white-wash the
>individual obligation and responsibility of government.
>
>Oh, by the way, the responsibilities of citizenship only begin at the ballot
>box, by no means do they end at the ballot box!
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 15:31:04 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
>><spirit@stlouis.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Indeed about the strawman argument; sorry about that.
>>>
>>>No problem, we all get carried away from time to time with our reactions to the
>>>contrary opinions of other participants.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>But you are wrong about the collective guilt of the general populace
>>>>of the losing countries. An example would be blaming people like
>>>>myself who always vote, but haven't voted R/D in decades for the
>>>>ultimate failure of the US when it happens. Yes I am a voter. No, I
>>>>share no culpability in what the electorate is doing to the country.
>>>
>>>I certainly disagree with you on this. When a government does something illegal
>>>or immoral, it is up to all citizens to participate in the resistance.
>>>
>>>Allow me the quote the second paragraph of the US Declaration of Independence,
>>>authored primarily by Thomas Jefferson.
>>>
>>>"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that
>>>they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among
>>>these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these
>>>rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
>>>the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes
>>>destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish
>>>it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles
>>>and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to
>>>effect their Safety and Happiness."
>>>
>>>All governments derive their power from the consent of the governed. Without
>>>such consent, no government, fascist, communist, democratic, etc, can survive.
>>>
>>>As for your personal culpability in the state of affairs in the USA, there is
>>>not a citizen, above the age of majority, who can legitimately claim to be
>>>impotent with regard to changing our government. We have choices, most choose
>>>the easy road and claim to be powerless.
>>>
>>>If the majority of German or Japanese citizens resisted their aggressive
>>>governments, the fascists and imperialists would have withered on the vine.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>You also, bring out the tired saw about German war atrocities. I
>>>>can't prove it, but I'm quite sure our side was equally guilty in
>>>>quantity and quality of atrocities. The only difference is that we
>>>>get to write the history.
>>>
>>>18.5 million civilian citizens of the USSR were killed as a result of the German
>>>invasion of their territory. This easily constitutes atrocities, sanctioned by
>>>the aggressor nation and it's populace; Germany and Germans.
>>>
>>>There was no threat to Germany from the USSR or it's other neighbors. There was
>>>no self defense involved, this was purely a war of aggression and it was
>>>supported by the German populace, all in the name of "Lebensraum" literally
>>>translated as "Living space".
>>>
>>>As for allied atrocities during WWII, can you specifically name any such events
>>>which even come close in magnitude or are equally lacking in justification as
>>>the actions of the Germans or Japanese? Just because it is a "tired saw" does
>>>not make the cut any less effective or deep.
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| Follow-ups: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 |
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