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From: Charles Lindbergh <spirit@stlouis.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.military
Subject: Re: Images of the Eastern Front - Images of the Eastern Front 054.jpg
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>
>
>Indeed about the strawman argument; sorry about that.
No problem, we all get carried away from time to time with our reactions to the
contrary opinions of other participants.
>
>But you are wrong about the collective guilt of the general populace
>of the losing countries. An example would be blaming people like
>myself who always vote, but haven't voted R/D in decades for the
>ultimate failure of the US when it happens. Yes I am a voter. No, I
>share no culpability in what the electorate is doing to the country.
I certainly disagree with you on this. When a government does something illegal
or immoral, it is up to all citizens to participate in the resistance.
Allow me the quote the second paragraph of the US Declaration of Independence,
authored primarily by Thomas Jefferson.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that
they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among
these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these
rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from
the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish
it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles
and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to
effect their Safety and Happiness."
All governments derive their power from the consent of the governed. Without
such consent, no government, fascist, communist, democratic, etc, can survive.
As for your personal culpability in the state of affairs in the USA, there is
not a citizen, above the age of majority, who can legitimately claim to be
impotent with regard to changing our government. We have choices, most choose
the easy road and claim to be powerless.
If the majority of German or Japanese citizens resisted their aggressive
governments, the fascists and imperialists would have withered on the vine.
>
>You also, bring out the tired saw about German war atrocities. I
>can't prove it, but I'm quite sure our side was equally guilty in
>quantity and quality of atrocities. The only difference is that we
>get to write the history.
18.5 million civilian citizens of the USSR were killed as a result of the German
invasion of their territory. This easily constitutes atrocities, sanctioned by
the aggressor nation and it's populace; Germany and Germans.
There was no threat to Germany from the USSR or it's other neighbors. There was
no self defense involved, this was purely a war of aggression and it was
supported by the German populace, all in the name of "Lebensraum" literally
translated as "Living space".
As for allied atrocities during WWII, can you specifically name any such events
which even come close in magnitude or are equally lacking in justification as
the actions of the Germans or Japanese? Just because it is a "tired saw" does
not make the cut any less effective or deep.
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